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17 Jun 2017, 10:36 (Ref:3742497) | #101 | ||
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GT4 is in the middle, somewhat more impractical and expensive base cars (Cayman, Mustang GT etc), but they are also production based and don't perform like V8 Supercars. GT3 vehicles are obviously exotica of little relevance to Joe Bloggs. |
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17 Jun 2017, 10:40 (Ref:3742499) | #102 | ||
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Permanent circuits should be the core, and they should be more than viable from miscellaneous circuit income (track days, driving training) and REASONABLE touring car sanction fees! |
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17 Jun 2017, 10:44 (Ref:3742500) | #103 | |
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I agree that Super Tourers were louder, not farty turbos, and more spectacular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLq9Oi3_MNg BUT I'd sure like you to drive this Civic Type R TCR around Macau and tell me "It's too slow!!" > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upEWevjpROk If Supercars could create a production-based GT4-style regulation for six-cylinder turbo performance 4-door sedans (BMW M3, C43 AMG, Infiniti Q50 Black S, Alfa Giulia QV) those would be bigger, stylish, "desirable", faster cars... BUT that would mean Ford and Holden would be OUT because they simply do not sell such a car anymore, would that be ok in your opinion? [Sadly Mustang has the wrong number of doors for a saloon formula! While the superb performance Cadillacs are not sold in Australia] Take Holden and Ford out, to make room and justification (Mercedes don't want to race with risk of being beaten by lesser brands like Holden) to bring in the prestige marques with performance sedans that have $100k+ starting prices? Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 17 Jun 2017 at 10:50. |
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17 Jun 2017, 16:06 (Ref:3742857) | #104 | |||
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When the rules for V8SC were written. 4 door bodies were mandated. along with other rules, to virtually ensure the only eligible models were Commodore and Falcon; the VU Monaro was 8 or so years away, and Ford Australia was done with making 2 door cars. That was well over 20 years ago now, and the whole 2 door vs 4 door thing should be forgotten. Prior to V8SC, Australian Touring Cars from Improved production through Group C and Group A was full of 2 door cars, and I don't EVER remember complaints about 2 door cars through those years. Minis, Mustangs, Monaros, Falcon Coupes, Alfetta GTVs, Capris, Escorts, Corollas, Chargers, 2 door Pacers, Jags, XU1 and A9X Toranas, Sierras, BMWs, Starions, and the Nissan DR30, HR31 and R32 Skylines. The one that probably sailed closest to the wind in terms of interior space was the Group C Mazda RX7. The R32 GT-R didn't cause ructions because it was a 2 door car - it was because it was good, and won races and championships. Perhaps if Group A rules had been amended to 2WD only. the story might have been different. If 2 door Touring Cars were perfectly OK for 30 years of Touring Cars prior to the blinkered V8SC era, now that the cars that caused those rules are all but gone, then 2 door cars should be welcomed back - so long as they are genuine 4/5 seaters when in factory trim. Last edited by RedZedMikey; 17 Jun 2017 at 16:11. |
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17 Jun 2017, 21:46 (Ref:3743485) | #105 | ||
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17 Jun 2017, 21:49 (Ref:3743492) | #106 | ||
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17 Jun 2017, 22:06 (Ref:3743527) | #107 | ||
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The Jerk Store rang... |
17 Jun 2017, 22:23 (Ref:3743574) | #108 | |
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Well if you only read half a post, which you then take out of context to your post that was being replied to then you have probably drawn a reasonable conclusion.
but if you take it in the context of the discussion then you know that is not the conclusion and the correct response would be something about how we are going to attract millennials to watch Seat''s and opels and all these other brands that are not in the top ten best sellers in australia |
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18 Jun 2017, 03:45 (Ref:3744111) | #109 | ||
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Consider punctuation then. I wasn't trolling, I read it as I said above.
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The Jerk Store rang... |
18 Jun 2017, 03:53 (Ref:3744120) | #110 | ||
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im more interested in your millennial theory though and how they will become engaged with TCR. The truth is, millennials need to be engaged for motorport to be continued. Eitherwise motorsport will die, and possibly soon |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:07 (Ref:3744192) | #111 | ||
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* Obviously race customers in Australia would choose the Golf or Audi version rather than the Seat, the cars are the same apart from the body anyway. |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:11 (Ref:3744194) | #112 | ||
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how do we get millenials to watch these cars for brands that are not in the top ten |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:14 (Ref:3744195) | #113 | ||
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As for millennials, to many of them driving around in circles burning resources for mere entertainment is blatant waste. So in the context of motorsport becoming a historical oddity like horse racing they can only do the best they can to promote motorsport. Motorsport is no longer seen as fearless daredevils in awesome machines as it was seen in the 50s and 60s. Often it is instead, rightly, seen as uber wealthy playboys entertaining themselves by blatantly wasting resources... Not if these wealthy amateurs are simply not thinking about the famine affected poverty-stricken losers of the global inequality balance and how they could better direct their funds than on petrol, tyres and AP Racing brake discs! ^ ^ To be fair, it is easy to get engrossed in glossy motorsport trade shows, five star hotels and submit to the first world fantasy. Anyway, thankfully Erebus (for example) have wised up and now run their operation on the basis of commercially viable sponsorship. But the idea of patrons and wealthy gentleman and lady drivers in motorsport (for example paying for a GT car to race, then choosing to do minimal laps and hand over maximum seat time to the quick hired guns) is certainly very weird. |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:20 (Ref:3744199) | #114 | ||
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Will there be less mullets and tank-tops in the crowd than Saturday night at the drags or Summernats or the hill at the Supercars version of the Bathurst 1000? Yeah, probably... oh well. That's fine. It would be more of a Bathurst 12 hour type crowd. You can't force millennials to like something they don't like! Just promote it, a small number will like it, most will have no interest. It's like saying "how do we get millenials to like rock music?" For starters rock music is not even on commercial radio anymore, so they are not exposed to it, for second why do they have to like what we like? People would have said the same: "how do we get hippies to like swing music?" Yet they liked Jimi Hendrix wielding an electric guitar, just as millenials like dance music, hip-hop and electronic R&B. So forget millennials and target your core 25+ years old market who will driving to the meeting in their tuned Golf Rs. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 18 Jun 2017 at 05:27. |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:23 (Ref:3744201) | #115 | ||
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18 Jun 2017, 05:29 (Ref:3744209) | #116 | |||
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Check out this huge field in the German TCR series, despite not having the pizzaz of the top line DTM series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auZTm0VEJVM Obviously TCR would not replace Supercars! Quote:
* Alfa Romeo Giulia QV * BMW M3 * Mercedes C43 AMG * Infiniti Q50 S Basically Volvo previewed the future with their smaller base car and the focus on prestige upmarket brands. So they'd be like that but with 6-cylinder turbo engines instead of wailing V8s. Of course the road car would have to be sold in 6-cylinder turbo RWD form to be eligible just like 1993's rules (no Insignia specials thank you very much!). They would have both the speed AND road relevance. It would be all about prestige marques, and prestige marques would be more inclined to compete without the risk of being beaten by "lowly" Holdens. While there are still Falcons and V8 Commodores (be they V8s or Insignias) running around, the risk of being beaten, and the "bogan" image will be a huge turn off to potential manufacturers. So clean break, 6 cylinder turbos based on a matching road car only, what do you say? IMO may as well keep the COTF chassis, though production chassis may be more attractive to manufacturers. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 18 Jun 2017 at 05:40. |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:36 (Ref:3744214) | #117 | ||
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the porsche would be about 5-8 seconds quicker that the TCR (sorry you edited) why would those cars you mention attract a crowd. Any series has to be a natural progression of what we have, or you alienate your audience and you kiss them goodbye |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:42 (Ref:3744219) | #118 | |||
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I drive a Civic Type R, it's great. I would be very interested in a TCR series. Lots of people drive Golf GTIs they would be also be very interested. Like I said it would not to replace Supercars. Quote:
The Giulia, the M3, the AMGs these are the cars that draw the big interest on Youtube. These are the cars that populate the parking lot of mid-level management in some downtown firm. The Commodore SS is not terrible by any means, but that is a thing of the past. It will be only BMW, Mercedes, Alfa Romeo, Jaguar etc offering super performance in sedan form (yes, for the rich) going into the future. I did forget the KIA Stinger too, my bad... that would also be eligible (and more reasonably priced as a road car). I guess we could make an exception for the transversely-engined Ford Fusion (Mondeo) Sport AWD Twin-Turbo to compete with an unrepresentative longitudinal RWD layout if Ford Australia were to sell it down under. *ahem Ford Australia pay attention!* Sadly no performance next-gen Commodore on the horizon, so Commodore is out! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 18 Jun 2017 at 05:49. |
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18 Jun 2017, 05:51 (Ref:3744224) | #119 | ||
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Ok i should set the standard than we say attract a crowd i'm talking about an audience, both at track and on tv, similar to now. Not a few 1000 enthusiasts turning up |
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18 Jun 2017, 06:01 (Ref:3744232) | #120 | ||
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Considering the lack of mainstream coverage the series gets these days you're not doing any worse
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
18 Jun 2017, 06:47 (Ref:3744255) | #121 | |
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The days of a series needing to run something that the punters can buy are dead and buried.
It's now 2017 not 1970. Times have changed but the series hasn't. |
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18 Jun 2017, 08:24 (Ref:3744294) | #122 | |
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18 Jun 2017, 08:30 (Ref:3744297) | #123 | ||
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VESA tried to make create carnivals by having the concerts... But then they kicked the own goal of taking the concerts away, which was/is a very daft move IMO. |
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18 Jun 2017, 08:38 (Ref:3744304) | #124 | ||
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18 Jun 2017, 09:22 (Ref:3744346) | #125 | |
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Horse racing is old fashioned, motor racing^ is old-fashioned. Both horse racing and motor racing are "sports" for the rich, but they like to have crowds & commercial support too. So they may as well look to horse racing for ideas. Horse racing went with the idea of glamorous dress up carnivals, while motor racing went with the idea of music festivals & family fun but they started to lose the plot by dropping the popular concerts and thus lose attendance.
^ In the era of low carbon footprint and the soon arrival of autonomous taxi services, driving around in circles burning fossil fuels and throwing away tyres after 200km is not a good look for sustainability! TCR is not a replacement for supercars! It would be a fun national category a bit like the MINI challenge or 86 series. Crucially it would provide a missing pathway to European touring car racing for Australian drivers. |
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