[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[littleman]

Unless Ross Brawn brings to an end the F1 monopoly currently enjoyed by the present ten teams, then nothing much is going to change. The only way to achieve this is to allow potential entrants to purchase "off the shelf" F1 cars.......divide and conquer.

Nobody other than a global car manufacturer could possibly consider entering F1 today. The investment required is beyond all but a few genuine multi-national corporations, the technical skills and resources necessary are mind blowing. Add to that 1,000 plus employees, an annual budget of £250 million (plus, plus ?) and you've pretty much guaranteed that nobody else can join the gravy train.

If McLaren, and particularly Williams, didn't enjoy the "preferred" status bestowed on them, neither could possibly afford to be in F1 today.

Most recent new entrant, Team Haas, managed to get onto the grid by way of an "off the shelf Ferrari"....."with a bit of tweaking".
There's absolutely no shame in this approach.

F1 must open up the paddock to many more potential teams. It can't do this unless chassis and engines, from numerous sources, are made available to anyone who wants them.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by littleman

Unless Ross Brawn brings to an end the F1 monopoly currently enjoyed by the present ten teams, then nothing much is going to change. The only way to achieve this is to allow potential entrants to purchase "off the shelf" F1 cars.......divide and conquer

Nobody's under any illusion as to the complexities of difficult decisions that need to be made and as you described that's only the financial side of the coin! and Lord knows how this conundrum can be solved but in addition we have the small matter of engineering technicalities in solving the "racing" or lack of it. The lack of overtaking potential brought about by current aerodynamics has been extolled at length on here without any positive conclusions as to which way the sport should reassert itself as the pinnacle of motorsport. As I have already stated, Ross Brawn has the most unenviable task in providing some answers which will prove palatable to all, I would mind betting he wishes sometimes he was back salmon fishing.

[Peter Mallett]

I think the problem comes with that phrase "pinnacle of motorsport". Once again it's bandied around as if the phrase itself is important. It isn't. What is important is racing. That means the best drivers in the best cars, toughing it out on proper circuits.

Proper engines, proper gearboxes and single plane front wings with ground effect. Dont need to be a manufacturer to build them, just a solid engineer.

Let's face it even gearboxes of whatever kind won't be road relevant for much longer.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Read here for some information...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/h...-for-2021.html

I suppose with a US company controlling FOM we were always going to just get " Mom & Apple pie".

The problem is that F1 wants to be more than the pinnacle of motor sport, it wants to be at the pinnacle of technology alongside space and defence. meanwhile the fanbase is divided between those who agree with that and those who want the circus to be even more of a circus.

Bring on the clowns!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Because the cost could be split in half.

But the costs aren't split in half.

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by justracing

Fundamentally, that statement says nothing, it's a wish list. The bones of the points made could have been extracted from a quick read through this thread. I find very that disappointing, as must the competing teams, there is no detail as yet.

The teams have more detailed information but have agreed to keep mum about what was said behind closed doors. They now have time to digest it, discuss it individually with the FIA and Liberty, then they will all come together once the decisions have been finalised.

[Casper]

Mercedes just fired up the CAD and began designing the new motor this morning, Ferrari, Renault are still think about the start date of design and Honda are thinking about who should be on the design committee.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

But the costs aren't split in half.

Right, I know, but if a title sponsor goes for $50 million (I have no idea the actual amount) you could get two different ones for $25 million. It seems like that would open up many more opportunities.

I completely understand your point and agree that a single sponsor is uniquely formula 1 and is cool.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

I suppose with a US company controlling FOM we were always going to just get " Mom & Apple pie".

The problem is that F1 wants to be more than the pinnacle of motor sport, it wants to be at the pinnacle of technology alongside space and defence. meanwhile the fanbase is divided between those who agree with that and those who want the circus to be even more of a circus.

Bring on the clowns!

I'm not sure what the apple pie comment is referring to? My mom is a saint but, to let you in on a secret, apple pie is trash. Much like Liberty Media (who also now have the American broadcast rights to Le Mans - oh joy).

Just wait until the debut the new F1 mascot next week. If you want a preview, search the Atlanta Braves new mascot "Blooper" and the fan reaction to it... It's going to be a bumpy ride.

[old man]

Talk once again of a Budget Cap, this time $150 million and as I have always believed, it can never work. Effectively Toto Wolff says so in this sentence:

"There is lots that we do as a manufacturer where we do work for the power unit that is for the benefit of customers as well."

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I'm not sure what the apple pie comment is referring to?

Sorry shows my age!
Comment goes back to homesick statements by GIs in the UK during WW11.
My Mum's apple pie was rubbish too!

What I was trying to express was a level of sentimental hope rather than a hard edged acceptance of a difficult position.

Really can't make a judgement until the detail comes out and the negotiations with the piranhas starts.

[Armco Bender]

Do away with F1 and make F2 the premier class.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Do away with F1 and make F2 the premier class.

Make F2 the drivers championship and F1 the Constructors championship.

[loon]

F2 is also pretty crap compared to the original F2

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Do away with F1 and make F2 the premier class.

Good idea!

Let them manufacture F1 cars to F2 spec, set min weight to 500 kg excluding driver.

[Adam43]

So the driver has to starve themselves to be competitive?

[Akrapovic]

I don't think F2 has a "spec" anymore. It's a single make series now, isn't it? It has no need for a technical rulebook.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't think F2 has a "spec" anymore. It's a single make series now, isn't it? It has no need for a technical rulebook.

F2 run a Dallara chassis and Mecachrome engine.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't think F2 has a "spec" anymore. It's a single make series now, isn't it? It has no need for a technical rulebook.

What I meant was treat the F2 Dallara as what you would expect to be built, single plane front wing etc etc. Then let them construct the car so that it weighs in a 500kg empty.
Add 100 kg for the drivers weight and ballast the car to that weight, make sure there is room for a 6'6" driver, I agree with Adam43, the starvation/dwarf championship is just ridiculous!

[Armco Bender]

I agree with Adam43, the starvation/dwarf championship is just ridiculous!

Thats already happening now,only a matter of time before drivers have surplus limbs amputated to save weight.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by wnut

What I meant was treat the F2 Dallara as what you would expect to be built, single plane front wing etc etc.!

I see.

F2 does have a more sensible aero package. Simple front wing, and a much larger diffuser that is not so sensitive to turbulence (unlike the F1 floor which is a small diffuser but heavily raked, and relying on the front wing to be functioning in clean air to generate the vortices to seal the floor properly).

[chillibowl]

sounds like an April 30 deadline to unilaterally push through 2019 changes aimed at improving overtaking will come and ago, unsurprisingly, with no consensus.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...anges-1026982/

lack of support, lack of funding, lack of agreement...so the usual stumbling blocks.

while i do believe that there is a long standing problem, i have to say i do somewhat agree that the backlash from OZ is being overblown given the two crackerjack races we have had since.

cant expect the teams to change overnight, cant really expect them to spend money to change for 2019 when 2021 will most likely see a new formula anyways.

im inclined to think that what Pirelli have done this year with their compounds is the far cheaper, more immediate, and thus more practical solution to the problem.

[Compromised]

I might be in the minority, but I don't enjoy watching cars on different tires "race". The overtakes seem cheap, almost like the guy with the new tires is in a different class of car.

I understand it's part of motorsport, it's not exactly new etc. but I feel relying on different compound/age tires for close racing won't always overcome the dirty air problem we have.

In reality though, as chillibowl alludes to - maybe tires are our only hope. I have no confidence the cars ability to follow will be addressed anytime soon.

[S griffin]

They need get rid of those ugly aero bits they have on the bodywork, although some cars did a good job of doing that in Bahrain!

[Chaynes321]

Originally Posted by Compromised

I might be in the minority, but I don't enjoy watching cars on different tires "race". The overtakes seem cheap, almost like the guy with the new tires is in a different class of car.

I understand it's part of motorsport, it's not exactly new etc. but I feel relying on different compound/age tires for close racing won't always overcome the dirty air problem we have.

In reality though, as chillibowl alludes to - maybe tires are our only hope. I have no confidence the cars ability to follow will be addressed anytime soon.

For me the most exciting part of motor-racing is the tyre strategy and i think there should be a minimum of 2 stops and tyre compounds that make sense to achieve that - if they can reduce the aero problems then everything will be even better