[Tech Issue] Front exit exhausts?

[slicktoast]

I've read very skimpy info (black Lotus & McLaren?) and never saw any clear pics of these, have any of you?

[Greem]

ScarbsF1 has a decentish pic, and technical analysis here

[Marbot]

The new F-Duct?

[bjohnsonsmith]

It's going to get mighty hot in those side pods.

[Adam43]

These should banned. There I've got that in

If this works and others see the advantage it strikes me that it is a hard mod to make mid year. Harder than double diffusers for Red Bull in 2009 and F-duct was for most last year...
I wonder how much gain there was.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Adam43

These should banned. There I've got that in

If this works and others see the advantage it strikes me that it is a hard mod to make mid year. Harder than double diffusers for Red Bull in 2009 and F-duct was for most last year...
I wonder how much gain there was.

This year should be easier to play catch up from my understanding..... the reason for other teams struggling last year with their late addition F-Ducts is that there was a freeze on chassis / tub changes from those that the teams homologated at the start of the year. The McLaren system was built into their homologated chassis whereas others had to make less efficient versions added on without altering the original spec of the tub. Hence we had systems that were appendages to the chassis rather than built in....drivers had to operate them hands off the wheel etc.

This year my understanding is that there are no such tub development restrictions, so teams can adapt their tubs and facilitate such improvements and updates.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by E.B

This year should be easier to play catch up from my understanding..... the reason for other teams struggling last year with their late addition F-Ducts is that there was a freeze on chassis / tub changes from those that the teams homologated at the start of the year. The McLaren system was built into their homologated chassis whereas others had to make less efficient versions added on without altering the original spec of the tub. Hence we had systems that were appendages to the chassis rather than built in....drivers had to operate them hands off the wheel etc.

This year my understanding is that there are no such tub development restrictions, so teams can adapt their tubs and facilitate such improvements and updates.

Well at least F1 has moved away from "run what you brung", FOR THE WHOLE YEAR!

This should definitely NOT be banned, they have shown innovation within the rules and it should be rewarded.
The question is, is this the innovation of 2011, and will it enable Renault to win the WDC and manufacturers championships? Is Quick Nick the new Jensen B?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

Well at least F1 has moved away from "run what you brung", FOR THE WHOLE YEAR!

Well, at least one team has.

Originally Posted by wnut

This should definitely NOT be banned, they have shown innovation within the rules and it should be rewarded.

Nothing ever being banned would now see F1 cars with, but not limited to: ABS, TC, ESP, Active suspension, automatic gearboxes and about 5 tonnes of downforce. Maybe even auto-pilot!

Originally Posted by wnut

The question is, is this the innovation of 2011, and will it enable Renault to win the WDC and manufacturers championships?

I certainly hope that it isn't the main talking point of 2011.

Originally Posted by wnut

Is Quick Nick the new Jensen B?

He's certainly got him beat on facial hair.

[wnut]

Ban it next year with pleasure, alongside front wings, but as far as this year is concerned the Renault exhaust should be allowed. It conforms to the 2011 regs. and is legal!
Well done Renault Group Lotus - Colin would be proud.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by wnut

Ban it next year with pleasure, alongside front wings, but as far as this year is concerned the Renault exhaust should be allowed. It conforms to the 2011 regs. and is legal!
Well done Renault Group Lotus - Colin would be proud.

Totally agree, the technical regulations have been set for the year. Banning any technical innovation other than at the end of the season just because only one team thought of it goes against all principles of fairness and sportsmanship. I'd rather see a season in which one team wins every race because of their ingenuity than witness an unprincipled rush to manipulate the results by fiddling with the tech regs. Not that there is any danger of Renault doing that this year anyway.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Not that there is any danger of Renault doing that this year anyway.

Indeed. Ferrari are much more likely to win it with a far more technically 'conservative' car. So much for innovation.

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Indeed. Ferrari are much more likely to win it with a far more technically 'conservative' car. So much for innovation.

well you have to get the basics right before you load the innovations on top - something that isn't easy to do when the rules are changing all the time. Seems as tho McLaren and Renault should have spent more effort getting their basics right instead of going for innovations this season

[strider]

Originally Posted by cmotd

Seems as tho McLaren and Renault should have spent more effort getting their basics right instead of going for innovations this season

Renault are alright. It seems to be McLaren who are chasing their tails.

Not surprising really when you think that by the end of last season Renault seemed to have to best f-duct system (it has to be lower case because it comes from Vodafone).

[Marbot]

Consensus is that Renault are right in there just behind Red Bull and Ferrari. But a clearer picture should emerge at the next test when many teams will turn up with their fully developed aero packages. Merc, in particular, are said to have something special to add to their car.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Merc, in particular, are said to have something special to add to their car.

They really do need it. It's something of a puzzle to me how a team that was so successful two seasons ago produced a car that was nowhere near as good last year and, so far, seem to have done the same this year, even though they switched to the 2011 design relatively early.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

They really do need it. It's something of a puzzle to me how a team that was so successful two seasons ago produced a car that was nowhere near as good last year and, so far, seem to have done the same this year, even though they switched to the 2011 design relatively early.

I don't think that the Merc we've seen in testing so far, is anything like the car that we'll see turning up in Barcelona in a few days time.

Unfortunately, for all of the teams, not going to Bahrain for the final test may have scuppered even the most brilliant of best laid plans. But that makes it all the more interesting for us.

[JeremySmith]

I agree with you Scott I think this car will be very very fast, I think they are sandbagging...

[E.B]

Well the suggestions are out that it is Red Bull who are sandbagging.

From GP Guide.com a couple of days ago

Hot on the heels of suggestions some teams have been turning 'glory laps' in testing, it is reported that Red Bull has been doing exactly the opposite.
Autosprint in Italy claims that when Sebastian Vettel topped the times at the wheel of the RB7 on the opening two days at the recent Barcelona test, he was carrying plenty of fuel.
The fact that the German was able to outpace its rivals whilst not even simulating qualifying is therefore an ominous sign for the forthcoming 2011 season.
But Vettel insisted: "With the new tyres it is difficult to interpret performance over a lap, whether it's your own or someone else's."
Red Bull's driver consultant Helmut Marko, however, recently admitted that the reigning champions as well as Ferrari have their noses ahead at present.
As for the much talked-about Pirellis, he told Austrian newspaper Kleine Zeitung: "We are having problems with the tyres, but less problems than the others."

[JeremySmith]

Okay then so are we done?

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by strider

It's something of a puzzle to me how a team that was so successful two seasons ago produced a car that was nowhere near as good last year and, so far, seem to have done the same this year, even though they switched to the 2011 design relatively early.

Not much of a puzzle really, they went from having one of the biggest budgets in F1, the resources of one of the world's biggest car manufacturers and a vast team of people (which developed the winning Brawn car) to having a small budget, very few resources and about a quarter of the staff (which developed the first Mercedes car)

[wnut]

Originally Posted by cmotd

Not much of a puzzle really, they went from having one of the biggest budgets in F1, the resources of one of the world's biggest car manufacturers and a vast team of people (which developed the winning Brawn car) to having a small budget, very few resources and about a quarter of the staff (which developed the first Mercedes car)

You are spot on here, as soon as you start retrencing and cutting staff you damage everything. It was forced on Braun, but the results are always the same! The organisation is severely damaged!

[Marbot]

All of the teams have had to get personnel numbers down to 315 members for this season. All of the top teams have taken a huge hit with regard to money spent and resources used, with the possibility of a 'Mosley' type budget cap coming in to take the place of the current RRA which runs out in 2017. It has possibly hurt the likes of Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren more than it has Mercedes, who were already down to those sort of numbers anyway. Bear in mind that those teams had close on 1000 members each just a couple of seasons ago!


"Known as the Resources Restriction Agreement (RRA), the deal this year includes a clause limiting each team to spending just EUR40 million on external services.

The cap was set to reduce to 20 million in 2011, but Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport said the teams have agreed to increase the limit next year to 30m.

Moreover, team staff numbers were set to be capped at 350 people, reducing to 280 a year later.

But the latter number has now been increased to 315, with the total agreement extended through 2017. The former agreement was set to expire in 2012.

"The good news is that the teams have agreed to extend the duration of the RRA," FOTA chairman Martin Whitmarsh confirmed.

"In doing that, there’s been some adjustment, so it’s been agreed in principle and everyone has signed up to that," added the McLaren boss.

"In some areas it’s been tightened, in some areas it’s been slackened," admitted the Briton.

The existing agreement also limits things like staff numbers at grands prix, the use of wind tunnels and CFD, and track testing.

"I think there was a danger that we wouldn’t be able to extend it (the agreement)," continued Whitmarsh. "I think all the teams took a sensible approach to come together and to agree to extend it for a long period of time."

Ferrari, meanwhile, confirmed that the new agreement will be in place until 2017."

[wnut]

Hi Mabot, the above relates to the current introduction of RRA and does not relate to the Honda operation shifting to the smaller underfunded Brawn operation which as CMOTD pointed out, unsurprisingly failed to carry the R&D on the championship winning car into the first year of the Mercedes operation, after having spent a year with no funding to build the next car.

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Moreover, team staff numbers were set to be capped at 350 people, reducing to 280 a year later.

But the latter number has now been increased to 315, with the total agreement extended through 2017. The former agreement was set to expire in 2012

just to make a point about this particular quote - numbers don't denote quality. without a budget restriction on staff Ferrari might spend $40m in annual wages on their 315 ppl, while mercedes only spends $5m - so in theory the Ferrari team will be more effective

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by cmotd

just to make a point about this particular quote - numbers don't denote quality. without a budget restriction on staff Ferrari might spend $40m in annual wages on their 315 ppl, while mercedes only spends $5m - so in theory the Ferrari team will be more effective

Possibly but certainly more expensive.