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Old 3 Aug 2017, 07:50 (Ref:3757146)   #31
one five five
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The prehistoric era is different to know, with cars that are that much more complex. A new car is the face of a team and shows how hard they are to get on top of.
New cars weren't the "face of a team and showed how hard they are to get on top of" when the formula's changed in 1985 or 1993??

It's no different nowadays changing cars for a new formula than it was for the Holden Dealer Team or DJR in the summer of 1984/85
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 08:04 (Ref:3757148)   #32
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New cars weren't the "face of a team and showed how hard they are to get on top of" when the formula's changed in 1985 or 1993??

It's no different nowadays changing cars for a new formula than it was for the Holden Dealer Team or DJR in the summer of 1984/85
The rules then were more relaxed and more manufacturers were involved. 1992 was the last time that Nissan ran, so they had to make 21 years catch up in 2013 as a team and factory. Mercedes hadn't run for that or even longer, again they had a lot of making up to do, Volvo in 2014 had about the same. You are saying to me its easy for them to get a car and run it again, no its not. When Nissan, Volvo and Mercedes had that much to catch on Ford and Holden they have their work cut out for them in 2013. Also, a car isn't the identity of the team; rubbish. A car/ or manufacturer is a face of a factory team, for example HRT, FPR, Polestar, Nissan. They didn't just have an idea one day of lets put this as our name. They have it for a reason
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 09:10 (Ref:3757168)   #33
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The rules then were more relaxed and more manufacturers were involved. 1992 was the last time that Nissan ran, so they had to make 21 years catch up in 2013 as a team and factory. Mercedes hadn't run for that or even longer, again they had a lot of making up to do, Volvo in 2014 had about the same. You are saying to me its easy for them to get a car and run it again, no its not. When Nissan, Volvo and Mercedes had that much to catch on Ford and Holden they have their work cut out for them in 2013. Also, a car isn't the identity of the team; rubbish. A car/ or manufacturer is a face of a factory team, for example HRT, FPR, Polestar, Nissan. They didn't just have an idea one day of lets put this as our name. They have it for a reason
What relationship is there between the Nissan, Mercedes and Volvo teams of old and the Supercar teams?

None, zero, zilch.

Garry Rogers has a long history or running different types of cars - the mid '90's was an especially busy time for GRM in that respect.

Kelly Racing had been established a number of years prior to taking on the Nissan project.

And Erebus was running Mercedes in GT racing before purchasing the assets of SBR. Replacing managers, staff walking out, drivers refusing to honour contracts might be symptoms of a poorly executed business plan, but it isn't wasn't s start up business (team).
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 09:43 (Ref:3757172)   #34
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What relationship is there between the Nissan, Mercedes and Volvo teams of old and the Supercar teams?

None, zero, zilch.

Garry Rogers has a long history or running different types of cars - the mid '90's was an especially busy time for GRM in that respect.

Kelly Racing had been established a number of years prior to taking on the Nissan project.

And Erebus was running Mercedes in GT racing before purchasing the assets of SBR. Replacing managers, staff walking out, drivers refusing to honour contracts might be symptoms of a poorly executed business plan, but it isn't wasn't s start up business (team).
So erebus was a start up in 2011 , who purchased a supercars team the next year, swapped manufactures and is now top ten in the championship.

so Charlie Schwerkolt Racing also meets the criteria then? Currently 13th (midpack) in the championship and 3rd of the single car teams
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 10:05 (Ref:3757175)   #35
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So erebus was a start up in 2011 , who purchased a supercars team the next year, swapped manufactures and is now top ten in the championship.

so Charlie Schwerkolt Racing also meets the criteria then? Currently 13th (midpack) in the championship and 3rd of the single car teams
According to others that CSR has existed as Team 18 since 2010.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 10:28 (Ref:3757177)   #36
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According to others that CSR has existed as Team 18 since 2010.
even if thats the case (and im doubtful) thats the answer to the question
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 12:09 (Ref:3757192)   #37
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The rules then were more relaxed and more manufacturers were involved. 1992 was the last time that Nissan ran, so they had to make 21 years catch up in 2013 as a team and factory. Mercedes hadn't run for that or even longer, again they had a lot of making up to do, Volvo in 2014 had about the same.
What "catch up" did any of them have to do?

Nissan gave their money to GMS in 1992, and gave their money to Kelly Racing in 2013 at the start of a new formula where everyone was starting from scratch. Nissan had nothing to catch up on!

Volvo were giving their money to George Sheppard in 1999 to run their cars, and from 2014 gave their money to GRM. At most the GRM/Volvo partnership was playing a 12 month catchup

The Erebus Merc's were a privateer effort, and always going to be an uphill battle. They weren't a new team though. If they were, then FPR/PRA was a new team in 2013 as well given they got new owners that season.

Also the only factory Mercedes participation in Australian touring car racing in the last 40 years amounts to three races, the 1986 Bathurst 1000, 1986 Sun 300 at Calder, and the 1986 AGP support race at Adelaide. Privateer Merc's with Phil Ward had run as late as 1994 at the Bathurst 1000, and 1995 in the ASTC.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 06:35 (Ref:3757316)   #38
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What "catch up" did any of them have to do?

Nissan gave their money to GMS in 1992, and gave their money to Kelly Racing in 2013 at the start of a new formula where everyone was starting from scratch. Nissan had nothing to catch up on!

Volvo were giving their money to George Sheppard in 1999 to run their cars, and from 2014 gave their money to GRM. At most the GRM/Volvo partnership was playing a 12 month catchup

The Erebus Merc's were a privateer effort, and always going to be an uphill battle. They weren't a new team though. If they were, then FPR/PRA was a new team in 2013 as well given they got new owners that season.

Also the only factory Mercedes participation in Australian touring car racing in the last 40 years amounts to three races, the 1986 Bathurst 1000, 1986 Sun 300 at Calder, and the 1986 AGP support race at Adelaide. Privateer Merc's with Phil Ward had run as late as 1994 at the Bathurst 1000, and 1995 in the ASTC.

You claim you have been in motorsport, yet the comments I see are proving very little knowledge. EVERY season counts. Ford and Holden had an advantage in understanding the tracks and how to work a chassis, Ford made little aerodynamic change. Nissan had less knowledge for a number of things, regardless of regulations, and your comment is contradictory as you said previously that the regualtions weren't major. Now I am questioning a number of things you are saying. Anyone with eyes can see there was catch for a new brand, data, chassis design, aero design, engine design. Holden and Ford also had an advantage in engine and componentry design, Nissan didn't. You saying it was all new and the old era didn't matter is so far off reality. Any data matters
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 12:03 (Ref:3757341)   #39
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You claim you have been in motorsport, yet the comments I see are proving very little knowledge. EVERY season counts. Ford and Holden had an advantage in understanding the tracks and how to work a chassis, Ford made little aerodynamic change. Nissan had less knowledge for a number of things, regardless of regulations, and your comment is contradictory as you said previously that the regualtions weren't major. Now I am questioning a number of things you are saying. Anyone with eyes can see there was catch for a new brand, data, chassis design, aero design, engine design. Holden and Ford also had an advantage in engine and componentry design, Nissan didn't. You saying it was all new and the old era didn't matter is so far off reality. Any data matters
KELLY RACING had the data, the Nissan Altima is their baby. Nissan gives them the $$$

You are making out like the Nissan and Volvo efforts were factory operations! They were not, Nissan and Volvo were in effect just sponsoring the efforts of Kelly Racing and GRM, who have been racing in the series for ages.

They were not "new teams" as you have tried suggesting
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 12:16 (Ref:3757345)   #40
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KELLY RACING had the data, the Nissan Altima is their baby. Nissan gives them the $$$

You are making out like the Nissan and Volvo efforts were factory operations! They were not, Nissan and Volvo were in effect just sponsoring the efforts of Kelly Racing and GRM, who have been racing in the series for ages.

They were not "new teams" as you have tried suggesting
Holden data doesn't work with a Nissan engine. No real similarities. I am sick of seeing the same argument of something silly. Better to move onto something else now I think.
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Old 5 Aug 2017, 07:07 (Ref:3757533)   #41
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Holden data doesn't work with a Nissan engine. No real similarities.
Of course it Holden data doesn't work with a Nissan engine. Everyone had new cars for 2013 anyway. The point is that Kelly Racing chose to go down the Nissan path with new engines to go along with new for 2013 chassis.

The fact that they chose a difficult and at first uncompetitive path, does not make them a new team to the series though!
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