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Old 3 Nov 2013, 03:30 (Ref:3326447)   #51
fomoco
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fomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridfomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Now this makes a bit more sense, why give money to an industry who's parent companys will pull the pin anyway. Better we change our focus and export ae components to the world :

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business...-1226752042468#
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Old 4 Nov 2013, 04:51 (Ref:3326839)   #52
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In terms of exports, how cool is it to watch 'Inside West Coast Customs' to see a Pedders Suspension package fitted to their 'Rascall Flatts' Camaro... Then to top it off, a Harrop supercharger was also included

Awesome stuff!
no PWR Radiator?
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Old 4 Nov 2013, 23:20 (Ref:3327277)   #53
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The 50,000th Australian built Kenworth rolled off the Bayswater, Melbourne asembly line recently.
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Old 4 Nov 2013, 23:28 (Ref:3327279)   #54
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HOLDEN workers will receive cash bonuses and annual pay rises worth almost $5 million during the next two months as the carmaker seeks extra taxpayer assistance from the federal government to stave off closure.
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The struggling car company, which has received $2.7 billion in subsidies over the past 12 years
So remind me again why we the taxpayer are expected to fund holden.

Let them clean up up their employment agreements and then I might be happy to fund them

it would be cheaper for the tax payer to have them on the dole
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Old 4 Nov 2013, 23:46 (Ref:3327297)   #55
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I have just got to the point in my mind where i think they should be left to save themselve's or die. The commodore is going backwards in sales at a fair rate, and i can tell you they are not being bought at auctions as used cars either. Most of the dealers and myself wont touch commodores or falcons as we just cant shift them.

The other problem, not just the car industry, is the wage's and conditions employers have to keep up with. There isnt a lot of profit in a new car so they are in a bad spot where you either cut staff or put up the price. you cut staff and your a bum, you put up the price and your sales drop and then you have to sack staff, and so the circle goes round.
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Old 5 Nov 2013, 02:12 (Ref:3327339)   #56
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no PWR Radiator?
Didnt seem like it... Although Mr Weel was in the dailies in the last few days, telling everyone how Queensland is a great place to invest...
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Old 5 Nov 2013, 13:52 (Ref:3327520)   #57
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Federal Government Fleet Size... Info Here
They don't buy many vehicles per year…
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Perhaps the FBT laws could be modified to incentivise people to take Australian-made cars instead of imported ones? Reduce the FBT liability by some amount that makes it financially responsible to take a Cruze instead of an i30…
Yes, something that incentivised production volume…

The problem is when volumes keep falling, economies of scale are lost and it's gets harder to make a profit. So increased subsidies are required to continue!
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Or just let it all shut down, so we have nothing...
Seem inevitable unfortunately.
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 06:17 (Ref:3328766)   #58
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it would be cheaper for the tax payer to have them on the dole
Are you sure about that? Does that include the suppliers too?
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 07:24 (Ref:3328784)   #59
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Whether it's govt supported industry or people on the dole, if things continue on a downward spiral the level of support will eventually have to be cut.........despite what some people think, the govt does not have a bottomless bucket of money that will never run out.
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 08:00 (Ref:3328790)   #60
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Are you sure about that? Does that include the suppliers too?
the dole would cost $50 million a year assuming they didnt find work elsewhere or retire on there quite impressive superannuation packages

Thats just for Holden employees
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 08:07 (Ref:3328791)   #61
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Problem is that there is also a very large supplier base in Adelaide who rely on Holden for at least 50 to 60% of their business, and Toyota and Ford for another sizeable chunk, with others making up the rest. Apparently there is atleast 10000 people working in those companies.
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 08:38 (Ref:3328802)   #62
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Problem is that there is also a very large supplier base in Adelaide who rely on Holden for at least 50 to 60% of their business, and Toyota and Ford for another sizeable chunk, with others making up the rest. Apparently there is atleast 10000 people working in those companies.
Arguably not for very much longer
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 09:05 (Ref:3328814)   #63
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the dole would cost $50 million a year assuming they didnt find work elsewhere or retire on there quite impressive superannuation packages

Thats just for Holden employees
Why cant these support industries do what Paul Weel, did, and Ron Harrop, and a few more, make ther components and export, stop relying on O/Seas companys head offices who have a history of not giving a **** and want govt handouts (taxpayers) for the simple reason they dont understand the Australian culture and want to off load there crap northern hemisphere products on us.

Sorry,as an EX GMH employee , I have seen it before, they could build, so could ford, but they want the cheap alternative and want the Aust Govt to do the same as the US Govt did, bail them out, and give heaps, but they dont want to help or asssist the support industries.

Give then the money to move into exporting, screw the Yanks and the Japs
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 21:22 (Ref:3329109)   #64
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todays Australian (pay wall)

End of the road for handouts to an ailing industry

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Former Productivity Commission chairman Gary Banks recently said: “Every job ‘saved’ in the auto industry by assistance through the government costs Australian taxpayers around $300,000.” Think about that.
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Old 8 Nov 2013, 22:34 (Ref:3329127)   #65
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There is a very rude, unmentionable word to describe the solution to the Australian motor industry problem.
It is TARIF!
There I said it. It has become a swear word in Australia under the neo-cons and Murdoch and the Globalisation fans but in varying forms it is practiced by every country with an auto industry. Except Us.
The Australian auto industry has just about the lowest effective level of subsidy/protection of any auto industry in the world. It is also subject to management decisions by people who are based in, and politically beholden too, foreign countries.
Unfortunately we have a long history of selling out our innovation, industry and control to overseas interests. Until someone has the guts to take back control we will continue on the slippery slide towards third world status.
Maybe there is another rude word we need to think about Nationalisation.
But then we have been privatising our best publicly owned assets for years now so there is probably too much momentum in that direction to halt it, let alone reverse the problem.
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Old 9 Nov 2013, 00:18 (Ref:3329146)   #66
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There is a very rude, unmentionable word to describe the solution to the Australian motor industry problem.
It is TARIF!
There I said it. It has become a swear word in Australia under the neo-cons and Murdoch and the Globalisation fans but in varying forms it is practiced by every country with an auto industry. Except Us.
The Australian auto industry has just about the lowest effective level of subsidy/protection of any auto industry in the world. It is also subject to management decisions by people who are based in, and politically beholden too, foreign countries.
Unfortunately we have a long history of selling out our innovation, industry and control to overseas interests. Until someone has the guts to take back control we will continue on the slippery slide towards third world status.
Maybe there is another rude word we need to think about Nationalisation.
But then we have been privatising our best publicly owned assets for years now so there is probably too much momentum in that direction to halt it, let alone reverse the problem.
Wow your obviously very independent on this. Remind me again who rejected tariffs in May 2013. why its was Fairfax and ABCs love child PM Julia Gillard.

I think you might want to rethink your rant. Both sides of politcs have backed tariff reductions
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Old 9 Nov 2013, 00:55 (Ref:3329152)   #67
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Wow your obviously very independent on this. Remind me again who rejected tariffs in May 2013. why its was Fairfax and ABCs love child PM Julia Gillard.
Probably more old fashioned Country Party than ALP Peckie.
It was actually the dreaded Gough that started winding back tariff protection before the coup.
Yes the road to globalisation means that neither major party, or the ivory tower academics think anything other than outright free trade is thinkable.
Problem is that the rest of the world is busy protecting their industries be it agriculture, manufacturing or knowledge based. We are bust selling ours out.
Maybe time we had a look at what others are doing?
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Old 9 Nov 2013, 03:24 (Ref:3329182)   #68
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Everyone yells and screams about tarrifs and protection of our manufacturing industries and yes at first glance it seems stupid to strip away all that when other countries utilise that sort of protection. If that is the case tell me why of all these countries Australia is the one country everyone looks at and wonders how we have survived all the economic upheavals that have beset the rest of the world with very little disturbance to our way of life. Someone must be something right. Keating was the mover and shaker and set us on this path and Howard embraced his philosophies with both hands.
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Old 9 Nov 2013, 21:49 (Ref:3329449)   #69
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From the Telegraph:

Holden’s $18m loss with handouts
By Sarah Martin News Corp Australia newspapers08 November 2013

Holden has presented an investment case to government, which includes the need for annual subsidies.

Holden factory loses $270 on each car, $18m per year.
Despite subsidies, Holden manufacturing plant does not turn a profit. Holden's manufacturing plant is losing up to $18 million a year -- or $270 a vehicle -- despite the carmaker factoring in at least $1 billion in government subsidies during the next decade as closure looms for its marginal Australian operations.
Related CoverageimageAustralia's hottest Holden hits USimageHolden V8 deadimageHolden's top secret 2016 exit | commentimageExclusive: Top GM exec visiting Holdenimage2014 Holden Trax LTZ reviewMore on HOLDEN
The Australian can reveal the grim financial snapshot -- based on Holden's internal figures -- that show the carmaker cannot turn a profit without $50m in operating cost savings offered by unions in August but contingent on the company agreeing to build two next-generation vehicles at Elizabeth from 2016.
The figures are modelled on the future production of about 65,000 cars a year at Holden's plant in South Australia and were provided to the manufacturing union in order to secure the cost savings. Based on these figures, the carmaker would lose about $100m a year without taxpayer subsidies, and would make an annual profit of about $30m only if it successfully secured government support during the next decade.
With the carmaker's future hanging in the balance, South Australian Labor Premier Jay Weatherill, who seeks re-election in March, yesterday warned of 13,000 job losses if Holden's factory in Adelaide's northern suburbs closed. Holden worker Tracy Young, who yesterday picked up a new Holden VS Calais sedan, said she was keen to see the company continue its strong carmaking tradition in Australia.
"We have had a Holden before, and we are supportive of the company and trying to keep manufacturing in Australia," Ms Young said. "From the point of view of keeping the manufacturing industry, and jobs, I think it is definitely important to subsidise the industry."
Notes prepared by the chair of the South Australian Labor government's manufacturing council, Goran Roos, have shown the state government was advised in August that it was "likely that vehicle assembly will eventually cease" at the Elizabeth plant, with 2016 flagged as the most likely date.
Australian Bureau of Statistics figures released yesterday showed the unemployment rate in South Australia rose to 6.6 per cent last month, almost a percentage point above the national rate of 5.7 per cent, and the highest of all mainland states. The figures represent the loss of 5500 jobs in the past month, and 28,000 fewer full-time jobs in the state than six months ago.
Mr Weatherill said the unemployment rate was "challenging", particularly for the manufacturing sector amid an escalating unemployment rate in Labor's last held mainland state. The Premier has urged the federal government to commit funding to Holden before a Productivity Commission report is completed next year.
"This underscores the importance of securing our manufacturing base," he said. "As challenging as this information is for us, imagine how much worse it is for us if you take 13,000 jobs out of the SA economy and strip out the capability that underpins our manufacturing sector. The truth is... manufacturing businesses need to change to survive."
Mr Weatherill said reports it was "likely" Holden would close in 2016 came as no surprise to his government. Australian Manufacturing Workers Union South Australian secretary John Camillo said the union had been prepared to agree to cost savings, including a pay freeze, based on the loss-making figures. "That is why they wanted the flexibility from the workforce," he said.
Holden has presented an investment case to government, which includes the need for annual subsidies to support a domestic-only market producing 65,000 cars a year.
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Old 10 Nov 2013, 22:50 (Ref:3329770)   #70
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fomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridfomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
where to know : Holden to kill the V8in Aust
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and..._dead_20131106
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Old 10 Nov 2013, 22:56 (Ref:3329773)   #71
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could this the be the final nail: Holden exit sooner rather than later

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...mment_20131106
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Old 11 Nov 2013, 02:25 (Ref:3329817)   #72
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Originally Posted by Oldtony View Post
There is a very rude, unmentionable word to describe the solution to the Australian motor industry problem.
It is TARIF!
There I said it. It has become a swear word in Australia under the neo-cons and Murdoch and the Globalisation fans but in varying forms it is practiced by every country with an auto industry. Except Us.
The Australian auto industry has just about the lowest effective level of subsidy/protection of any auto industry in the world. It is also subject to management decisions by people who are based in, and politically beholden too, foreign countries.
Unfortunately we have a long history of selling out our innovation, industry and control to overseas interests. Until someone has the guts to take back control we will continue on the slippery slide towards third world status.
Maybe there is another rude word we need to think about Nationalisation.
But then we have been privatising our best publicly owned assets for years now so there is probably too much momentum in that direction to halt it, let alone reverse the problem.
OldTony for PM!
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Old 11 Nov 2013, 05:34 (Ref:3329840)   #73
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Old 11 Nov 2013, 21:10 (Ref:3330105)   #74
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fomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridfomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
He is a busy man, but has the power to yay or nay

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226757600405
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Old 12 Nov 2013, 03:44 (Ref:3330244)   #75
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where to know : Holden to kill the V8in Aust
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and..._dead_20131106
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could this the be the final nail: Holden exit sooner rather than later

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...mment_20131106
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He is a busy man, but has the power to yay or nay

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226757600405
Thanks for putting those up fomoco.

Have to say that I have no idea on where the whole question of local manufacture will end up but Joshua Dowling wrote all three of those articles and he does have a tendency to claim that the sky is falling on a regular basis in regards to the local car industry. Two of those articles are based of a report done by an academic for the SA govt containing a wide range of assumptions and may in fact bear no resemblance at all to Holden's current plans.

I for one would really like to see car manufacture remain here - there's a wide range of employment, skills and training driven off it but I also get that the money pit is not bottomless.

Very interesting times and hard to see with any clarity where this is all going to end.
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