Official Round 15: Singapore Grand Prix - Page 7

**Peter Mallett** · 28 Sep 2010, 05:01 (Ref:2765853)

I think this is turning (has turned) into a bash fest. There was nothing wrong in the attitude of either driver. Don't forget this was similar to the first corner at Turkey when Jenson and Lewis were racing each other. Because they were in the same team Jenson sensibly backed out of it. Last Sunday Mark didn't and nor should he have done so.

Just a simple racing accident.

Lewis has every right to be angry at himself as indeed would anybody. He's probably thinking "if only I'd left more space". But as a certain M Walker once said "IF is F1 backwards."

Ralf's Girl · 28 Sep 2010, 08:54 (Ref:2765909)

There is a reasonable argument to say that Webber should have backed out of it, but only from the point of view of protecting his championship lead. It was a risky thing for him to get tangled up in - Hamilton sort of has to go for it because if he doesn't score more than his rivals he won't win the title, but Webber needs to be consistently scoring decent points, and scrapping with Hamilton could have put him out of the race.

peckstar · 28 Sep 2010, 09:02 (Ref:2765913)

But doesnt that work just as well both ways, whoever got that poistion was leading the championship (well just 2 points sepearting them) . It was an important pass.

only one of the two drivers had the chance to leave some racing room and he didnt and he got punished

SSbaby · 28 Sep 2010, 11:25 (Ref:2765977)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesH

Next time Webber has the same happen to him, can we laugh back?

As for Webber minding his own business - testicles. They were, I assume, both in the same race? LH had just overtaken him - of course MW was going to try to get the place back - not 'mind his own business'. MW was in LH's blind spot, LH didn't know he was there. Therefor racing incident. Neither ones persons fault nor the other. So therefor no 'correct' driver. So therefor no need to gloat. If you want to laugh at people crashing out of races due to contact, I suggest you limit you viewing to BTCC. Or, there are plenty of racing car crashes on YouTube.

You are free to laugh at anybody or anyone you please. You know you don't need my permission to do so... so no need to be a smartxxxx.

Btw, I'm allowed to laugh as hard as any fan whenever LH fails to finish. Is that OK by you or do I have to ask you for permission before I express my joy at having Webber extend his ch/ship lead?

Laughing is therapeutic. Give it a try sometime.

steve_r · 28 Sep 2010, 15:40 (Ref:2766119)

Thanks OK, just as long as you don't get too upset when the boot is on the other foot...

Gilles lives! · 28 Sep 2010, 19:23 (Ref:2766244)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

only one of the two drivers had the chance to leave some racing room and he didnt and he got punished

Why only one ? I don't understand your point, if Webbo had simply conceded the corner, by braking earlier, being that his car was behind Hamilton and/or further away from the apex when LH turned in, they would have both continued unscathed. However if LH had run wide, giving MW more room to crash across the kerbs, he probably would have incurred the dreaded after race penalty from Mr Sullivan.

If that was a racing incident, then I expect the same leniency from the officials, when the top 5 tangle over the course of the remaining 4 races....which we know they will !

Wims · 28 Sep 2010, 19:44 (Ref:2766258)

Lewis hamilton was never ahead. Being half a car length further down the road is not being ahead; its being side by side. If Hamilton had braked earlier and conceded the corner they would never have crashed either. See how the exact same argument can be used for both parties involved? This should be fairly obvious proof that this was indeed a racing incident, as mr Hamilton himself said in the post race interview

JamesH · 28 Sep 2010, 19:54 (Ref:2766265)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

You are free to laugh at anybody or anyone you please. You know you don't need my permission to do so... so no need to be a smartxxxx.

Btw, I'm allowed to laugh as hard as any fan whenever LH fails to finish. Is that OK by you or do I have to ask you for permission before I express my joy at having Webber extend his ch/ship lead?

Laughing is therapeutic. Give it a try sometime.

Laughing is absolutely fine. It's gloating that is a bit off. Nobody likes a gloater. Ask Lord Percy.

Gilles lives! · 28 Sep 2010, 20:07 (Ref:2766272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Lewis hamilton was never ahead. Being half a car length further down the road is not being ahead; its being side by side. If Hamilton had braked earlier and conceded the corner they would never have crashed either. See how the exact same argument can be used for both parties involved? This should be fairly obvious proof that this was indeed a racing incident, as mr Hamilton himself said in the post race interview

Oh ok, our opinions differ, he was ahead on my TV screen, as was Prost over Senna in Japan and Hill over Schumacher in Oz. I don't like to see this kind of driving in any motorsport and this only promotes it.

**Born Racer** · 28 Sep 2010, 20:58 (Ref:2766295)

I posted this elsewhere, but it's worth looking at here, to see just how blameless Webber was. You may still think he's a lot to blame after this, but at least you will have seen it from his perspective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALsVgVM77rs

TrapezeArtist · 28 Sep 2010, 21:40 (Ref:2766324)

In the bad old days when sex was safe and motor-racing was dangerous, driver discipline was driven by fear. Now that we are able to benefit from the incredible safety advances of the last 20 years, something new is needed to guide driver discipline. The solution is some clear rules on driving standards. It's hardly surprising that race steward's decisions are inconsistent when you see what they have to work with.

I have long believed that when there is an overlap between two cars, each driver should give the other driver room. So taking the example of the Hamilton/Webber incident in Singapore, Hamilton should have left a car's width between himself and the apex kerb. Then Webber would have been obliged to do two things: occupy that space on the inside without t-boning Hamilton, and leave enough room for Hamilton at the exit kerb. This would mean that both drivers would have had their racing lines severely restricted and would have to adjust their speed accordingly. Not a problem: if this was the rule, they would soon get used to it.

With this rule in place, 99% of the time both drivers would get through the corner safely. And if not, we would clearly know who was to blame and they could be penalised accordingly.

Gilles lives! · 28 Sep 2010, 22:21 (Ref:2766336)

I'm sorry bornracer but I can't view the delights of youtube from this desktop.
I agree with what you are saying trapeze but these drivers haven't had that bred into them, indeed even from starting in karting at an early age it isn't ! So we will always going to have incidents like this that we can disagree over. There was some delightful moves and respect shown during the race, especially by those around Webber, earlier on and Kubica towards the end. I just don't think there was on Webber's account here. It's just my opinion and the way I saw the accident.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 28 Sep 2010, 22:31 (Ref:2766338)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I posted this elsewhere, but it's worth looking at here, to see just how blameless Webber was. You may still think he's a lot to blame after this, but at least you will have seen it from his perspective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALsVgVM77rs

Shame the camera wasn't on the otherside of the airbox but just looking at it as is, there doesn't appear to be any contact and that Hamilton's rear end stepped out.

**Born Racer** · 30 Sep 2010, 15:44 (Ref:2767233)

Ted Kravitz reveals that Bridgestone reckon Mark Webber's tyre would have done about another half-mile before deflating and coming off the rim. Less than 1/3 of a mile.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/9036020.stm

**Peter Mallett** · 30 Sep 2010, 17:02 (Ref:2767291)

Er.

It's either a half mile or less than 1/3rd, which is it? Or should I ask which would be more sensationalist?

**Born Racer** · 30 Sep 2010, 18:26 (Ref:2767343)

Whoops, I meant a third of a lap.

strider · 30 Sep 2010, 21:52 (Ref:2767473)

What Kravitz said was half a mile or a third or the circuit, but I think the circuit is 3.148 miles long, so we're not much wiser.

**Born Racer** · 30 Sep 2010, 22:08 (Ref:2767482)

Yeah, I wasn't sure of his maths there.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 30 Sep 2010, 22:28 (Ref:2767493)

Maths was never my forte.

E.B · 1 Oct 2010, 06:21 (Ref:2767605)

I think regardless of the figures and exactness of the details it says fairly clearly 'Webber was very lucky to actually finish the race at all.'

**Adam43** · 1 Oct 2010, 18:14 (Ref:2767854)

OMG.

**Born Racer** · 2 Oct 2010, 10:39 (Ref:2768087)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

OMG.

Quite significant, is it not?

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