[Driver] Webber needs the ban hamster part 2

[Monstersuzuki]

Originally Posted by deeks6

The problem with Hamilton is he just can't race ... whether he is hitting Webber under safety car or Massa or walls because he has driven his car too hard (again). Anyone with half a brain can see that if you turn in on a car that is still there you will hit it ... duhhh. Have a good look at how many incidents Golden Boy is involved in and who was at fault.
While you'tr at it consider what Hamilton would have done if the roles were reversed ... gone for it just the same as Webber or Alonso or Vettel or anyone else worth a seat in F1. Seriously, follow lawn bowls if you think that was odd.

WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON?....can I join it, sounds wonderful!.

if Hamilton can't race then half the others can't either and di grassi would be the title leader. the thing is the other aforementioned drivers would have seen sense, you know that if you are still there and somebody who is driving the line comes in if you don't move then your gonna hit somebody!.

That arguement works both ways!

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Shows his general attitude in situations like that.

Again, irrelevant. Had the collision been his fault, then fine that would be interesting information with which we could scorn him. But it was not his fault (however much I would like to pretend otherwise). He had the inside line, Lewis was not all the way past, and he stayed tight to the kerb.

This is an incident that is either a 50/50 racing incident or Hamilton's mistake.

The more I see it however the more I think 'racing incident' over 'Hamilton Error'. But I still think Webber had ever right to hold the inside and fight for the position. Perhaps he could have just carried a tiny bit less speed in and Lewis could have left a tiny bit more room. Bad luck for Lewis, good luck for Mark. It happens.

[Rich R]

Webbers fault, just too clumsy when others are trying to overtake him

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Nah, racing incident.

If McLaren hadn't cocked up their strategy, Hamilton wouldn't have made that move because he would've been ahead of Webber.

I have to agree with that. Whitmarsh's strategy seems to be rather suspect, regarding pitstops. Earlier on this season we saw some great calls by Button but looks like Whitmarsh is now calling the shots and is making a bit of a hash of it.

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by deeks6

The problem with Hamilton is he just can't race ... whether he is hitting Webber under safety car or Massa or walls because he has driven his car too hard (again). Anyone with half a brain can see that if you turn in on a car that is still there you will hit it ... duhhh. Have a good look at how many incidents Golden Boy is involved in and who was at fault.
While you'tr at it consider what Hamilton would have done if the roles were reversed ... gone for it just the same as Webber or Alonso or Vettel or anyone else worth a seat in F1. Seriously, follow lawn bowls if you think that was odd.

Cant agree with that. Along with Kubica and Alonso, Hamo is easily one of the best racers out there. Unlik eKubica who does most of his racing back in the back half of the top 10 where the cars and competition for the championship isnt so hard...Kubiica tends to be able to do the job cleaner. Not sure how he would go if he was racing the McLarens, RBR and Ferraris every weekend.

It was a racing incident. Hamo got a run and had to turn in. Webber was still there and had the car well under control at the apex and had every right to be there.

There was contact and it was luck that allowed Webber to continue and not Hamo.

The way I look at it, if coming up to that corner Webber was on the outside and Hamo got a small run and got up the inside to the extent Webber did...it would have played out the same way and for the same result.

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by Rich R

Well Kubica and Sutil just showed how to race through that corner side by side

Egg Zachary!!!

Webber has shown on more than one occasion he's not just going to concede his position and that he will hold his line, why on earth you would think he would do any differently at this stage of the season is a mistake on LH behalf, it could of gone either way with who would have the mechanical failure out of the incident but it seems the luck is falling MWs way more often than not lately

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by deeks6

The problem with Hamilton is he just can't race ... whether he is hitting Webber under safety car or Massa or walls because he has driven his car too hard (again).

OK, deeks6.

Please list all the drivers Hamilton has punted off.

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Seemed fine to me.

Also, where is part 1? - can't seem to find it to read over it

Hiding in disgrace.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Chatters

Ten place penalty for Martin Brundle.

And for Martin Whitmarsh.

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by ensign14

OK, deeks6.

Please list all the drivers Hamilton has punted off.

Sounds like he's getting confused with Vettel!

whether he is hitting Webber under safety car

^ That was definitely Vettel. I remember Lewis punting Kimi out at Montreal 2008 in the pit lane... that's about it I think.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Funny how many Australians are defending Webber. It's one heck of a coincidence, isn't it?

It's quite disgraceful.

[Spritle]

I enjoy these post race ****ing matches more than the race!

I give this "incident" a 10+++ and the thread a 20!!

I sincerely hope we have more "incidents" involving drivers in the WDC hunt so nationalistic pride, favouritism and outright bias shine brightly!

It is quite enjoyable to read these post race comments whilst at the same time...

..it's a disgrace!

[SuperTourer]

Originally Posted by Monstersuzuki

WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON?....can I join it, sounds wonderful!.

Are you sure you really want to join it? Yours is much further out there than any I know of!

It was clearly a racing incident but I do wonder why Lewis didn't leave him more room as surely he knows mark by now and that he is not going to give in that easy. Either way it was unintentional of both drivers as they realise the consequences of crashing out.

Personally I don't think mark had any choice in being able to pull up any earlier. I back brundle on this one. Where was he supposed to go?

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by SuperTourer

Personally I don't think mark had any choice in being able to pull up any earlier. I back brundle on this one. Where was he supposed to go?

Well, Adrian Sutil, in a demonstrably worse car than the Red Bull, was somehow able to get around the corner without using the opposition as a brake. Perhaps he is a better driver than Webber.

[stripedcat]

I think it was Hamilton's fault not Webber's. Hamilton made a massive mistake today with that move!!!!

[Fox89]

Well, Adrian Sutil, in a demonstrably worse car than the Red Bull, was somehow able to get around the corner without using the opposition as a brake. Perhaps he is a better driver than Webber.

You do your argument no favours, Ensign. All those pictures show is that 1) Kubica was further ahead than Lewis at turn in and 2) Kubica left more room than Lewis.

And it isn't like Sutil just gave up the position, you can clearly see as Kubica is turning in that he is still partially alongside Sutil.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Having watched it again, Webber had the line on the corner and Lewis closed the door prematurely.

[OZ_HCR32]

Well, personally I think even though Australian I am a long way from being one eyed.

I am sure not blaming Hamilton, nor am I blaming Webber. This thread shows more about the bias of posters then an understanding of the incident or racing as a whole

But its all rubbish. With a few GPs to go, the two title leaders were going into a high speed braking area side by side. One of them needed to let up, both were relying on the other to give the space required to pull off the moves...neither did and that is understandable considering what they are racing for....

If Webber had of understeered into Hamo then I think that would mean Mark would deserve the flack he got in Australia (deserving) But this time round, it was tough wheel to wheel racing betweem two guys that couldnt afford to flinch first

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Fox89

You do your argument no favours, Ensign. All those pictures show is that 1) Kubica was further ahead than Lewis at turn in and 2) Kubica left more room than Lewis.

Kubica might have left a sliver more room because, as you can see, Sutil is more on track. Webber is almost fully off track and came back onto it when there was traffic there.

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

I think it was Hamilton's fault not Webber's. Hamilton made a massive mistake today with that move!!!!

What??? Come on. Hamo hs just given up P3 to an early pitting Webber. He knows that whilst on fresher tyres that Mark is probably at least 1 sec per lap quicker looking up the road and Seb and Alonso.

He is gifted a position on the back of Marks bumper because of the safety car and then like Canada the car he is chasing has to trip over an awkward slower car which gives him a chance that he is 90% sure he wont be getting again.

He goes on 110% attack, gets alongside, a touch ahead, half a car length, Webber gets a mtr or two back under brakes and on the inside line....

Mark is thinking "I am quicker but I couldnt get past Rubens...this is the defining corner of my GP"... and Hamo is saying "if i can get him, I can hold him"

Its perfectly understandable how they got there...and to see the end result. I think Webber had the thing under control on the inside, ditto Ham on the outside....two cars side by side into such a corner where Hamo was always going to go tight because of the next corner...plus by his own statements he didnt realise Webber was living with him under brakes

All of this = understandable racing incident

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Kubica might have left a sliver more room because, as you can see, Sutil is more on track. Webber is almost fully off track and came back onto it when there was traffic there.

...Well if Webber is using MORE kerb, that just shows he's trying harder to leave the guy on the outside space!! And Kubica is leaving more room because he is slightly further from the kerb. Also, Kubica's direction suggests he isn't trying to take such a tight line as Lewis.

[picchiofan]

Low percentage move by Hamilton, Webber was already over the curbing, he had nowhere to go.

Hamilton's fault.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Fox89

...Well if Webber is using MORE kerb, that just shows he's trying harder to leave the guy on the outside space!!

Or that he's trying a banzai move that will only succeed if he punts his closest rival off track. Now, what do you think the man who has admitted he wants the title by any means necessary would do in those circumstances?

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Or that he's trying a banzai move that will only succeed if he punts his closest rival off track. Now, what do you think the man who has admitted he wants the title by any means necessary would do in those circumstances?

Not risk crashing out of third place. Something which would, at best, only have three championship rivals gain on him and at worst, fail to take Lewis out and have all 4 close up and/or overtake him.

He was trying to race hard and fair, just as Kubica and Sutil did. Webber gave MORE space for his opponent to manoeuvre than Sutil did for Kubica. Hamilton tried to take a line that was slightly too tight and as a result almost took both of them out of the race.

Racing incident, and every single bit of the 'evidence' you have presented has just reinforced my belief that Webber did nothing wrong. And please bear in mind I am a huge Hamilton fan, so if there was any bias in me it would be in Lewis's favour.

[ensign14]

The evidence is simples. The man behind hit the man in front.