Who was better? Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve?

[Inigo Montoya]

Hill. Just based on his performance in Monaco that year he almost won in the Arrows. Jacques may have had more balls, but Hill was the better driver.

[jhansen]

I like JV much better than Hill, but gave Hill my vote. JV took it to him pretty well in 1996 for a rookie. However, I feel JV's championship year in 1997 was not convincing enough given the car he had. And in 1998 the best he could muster was two third place finishes in defense of his title. JV was unable to drag anything out of the Williams that season. He only finished 1 point ahead of Hill that year who managed a victory at Spa in the Jordan. And all JV has to show for his five seasons with BAR are two podiums and 39 points. He could have done much more with his career.

[Son of Jor-El]

Hill by far.
For pretty much all the reasons that people have stated.
He wasn't blessed with the talent of raw speed, because unlike most of the F1 drivers he started racing with 4 wheels very late and without the experience of karting.
Pure dogged determination, like his dad, won him 22 races, a WDC and a lot of poles.
But also he had the ability to "get on" with his teammates better than JV did. Just an observation!

[Miss Hardt]

I cannot make up my mind. I cheered for Jacques for a longer period of time and I always will, but Hill is also one great sportsman. F1 needs more fair and smart people like them two. They're like dinosaurs who have died to be replaced by robots.

[Jordi]

Not sure. I love them both.

Why I like Jacques:
-He's not a clone
-He can really drive
-Estoril 1996
-Jerez 1997
-1996
-1997
-2000
-His 2001 podiums
-His loyalty to BAR, even if it was a little naive at the end

Why I like Damon:
-1994
-1996
-Japan 96
-Suzuka 94
-Hungary 97
-Spa 98
-Gentleman
-Intelligence

[f1manoz]

Damon gets my vote. But I'll just be repeating the reasons above.

In nice guy stakes, he creams JV.

[woodbine]

JV got his speed from within him while Damon got his from his car. This is not meant to belittle Damon rather just point out the differences between them.

The Hungary result was in a large part due to Damon knowing exactly how to set up a car for that track. I seem to remember that Pedro Diniz qualified in about 7th for race which was also his best result of the year.

Overall though Damon and JV were a pretty good team. Damon sets up the car and JV does the exciting stuff.

[Kirk]

Some questions aren't worth a response, but I will say one thing. Try to forget the fact that Hill is a Brit, folks. Then respond from your head, not heart. Geeeeeeeeeeeesh!

[Gt_R]

How about this from an F1 fan from neither Britain nor Canada.

In the end, i'd rank Damon (not a strong fan of his) ahead of JV (not a strong fan of his either) as an F1 driver.

In terms of WDC, Damon and JV won their's in vastly superior machinery and little competition. Williams 96 was the best car, and DH's rivalry comes from a rookie (JV) and MS in a pig-car. Williams 97 was the best car, JV's competition is MS in a pig car.

And both won by just that small margin, almost losing it...so we can't say its really impressive

However, it is in inferior/struggling cars that really seperate the 2. Almost winning Hungary GP with that Arrows really made me give DH more respect as a driver than in the past. Similarly, he produced some decent results in Jordan.

On the otherhand, JV produced little results nor progress with BAR, nor Williams post 97. We can argue how bad Williams-post-Renault was, but DH had shown some form in an Arrows and MS had won 3 races in the 96 Ferrari. BAR was a sorry story, and a team built around him doesn't achieve any progress, let alone achievement, which is disappointing.

Next, we've heard good things about Hill's developement skills and his willingness to work hard for testing, producing positive results. JV's history of testing/developement abilities doesn't match up at all.

The last note that seperates them is that DH is a sports gentleman, fair and a decent bloke to work with... JV only irritates team-mates, competitors, team bosses (from what we've read of course), and is a pain to work with.

So, from a very fair and objective reasoning, i'd give my vote to DH.

PS Jordi...you love JV...Jerez 97???

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Kirk
Some questions aren't worth a response, but I will say one thing. Try to forget the fact that Hill is a Brit, folks. Then respond from your head, not heart. Geeeeeeeeeeeesh!

Maybe also you should forget about the nationality of posters too. It is possible to post a sentiment without automatically siding with someone of the same nationality. I'm sure a lot of people resent that.

I am a Damon fan, I like him a lot and probably part of that is probably because of his Englishness (he has all the perceived positive qualities of being English). However very few of my favourites (certainly in the last 20 years of F1) are Brits.

And I am a little embarrassed by having to respond to this. The Brits and, for that matter, the Canadians view points on this matter are not any less valid. Especially when, as most have been, they are expressed so well.

All this is off topic. The question is a good one about two drivers who's path crossed for a short time, but are very similar in many ways. Lets keep it to that.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Kirk
Some questions aren't worth a response, but I will say one thing. Try to forget the fact that Hill is a Brit, folks. Then respond from your head, not heart. Geeeeeeeeeeeesh!

This is exactly what i was trying to point out in This post

p.s aren't you Canadian Kirk?

[John Turner]

Unlike Gt_r, I Am a fan of both drivers but I cannot fault his reasoning which sums up my thoughts precisely. It has to be Hill, the more complete F1 team driver of the two.

[Spudgun]

I have to say Hill.

I can only echo previous comments with his ability to develop cars and his smooth driving style.

I used to be in awe watching him qualify in 1996. The car just looked so slow, but when he went over the line he'd taken pole.

But in the end it's a close run thing. Each driver has their strength and weaknesses.

JV had no qualms with grabbing the car by the scruff of the neck whereas Damon made the car behave how he wanted it to. Different approaches to the same end.

What wins it out for me though is Hill's smoothness to his driving and being a major part in the dominant streak that Williams had in the mid-'90s.

[steve_r]

Originally posted by Kirk
Some questions aren't worth a response, but I will say one thing. Try to forget the fact that Hill is a Brit, folks. Then respond from your head, not heart. Geeeeeeeeeeeesh!

Says the man who started a post to debate who is better: Michael Schumacher or Barichello.

[Kicking-back]

In 1996 Damon often qualified more than a second ahead of Jacques.

Because Williams had a big gap over the other teams that meant JV would still end up on the front couple of rows.

But usually a qualifying gap of a second would put you many places down the grid - so if that had been the case people would not be trying to say JV is as good as some do.

JV was made to look better than he was - in qualifying at least.

[chunterer]

I'm gonna give my verdict on two fronts:
1/ racing ability
2/ bottle

Therefore JV wins hands down on both fronts.

I'd site a few reasons why:

Hill had several years F1 experience on JV when he joined Williams yet Jacques still put it on pole for his first race (i think?!)!

Move on Schu at Estoril one of the moves in history.

Damon on his day was bloody fast but usually when out front. He was never comfortable when battling for position and i'm also thinking back to his F3000 days for that as well as his numerous collisions with Schu (and ramming Nakano at Imola in the Arrows because he couldn't overtake him!) to boot.

[kdr]

i'm trying to recall jv pulling a move like this in anything other than a superior hill developed williams, but my minds going blank. can someone help me please....?

EDIT: Picture of Damon passing Michael during the 1997 Hungarian GP.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by kdr
i'm trying to recall jv pulling a move like this in anything other than a superior hill developed williams, but my minds going blank. can someone help me please....?

Well there is an obvious answer, but JV didn't get through cleanly. Shall we leave it at that because the thread is about Damon and Jacques - The last two Williams world champions!

Great pic I love it, you couldn't give us a link could you?!

[Red]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Great pic I love it, you couldn't give us a link could you?!

Ermm... this one?

http://tentenths.com/forum/attachmen...&postid=856365

[Adam43]

Ermm... here is another one http://tentenths.com/forum/misc.php?...ge=1#behaviour (final sentence, last paragraph!)

[EERO]

Originally posted by woodbine

The Hungary result was in a large part due to Damon knowing exactly how to set up a car for that track.

I've seen this idea vetted here a few times over the years, and I don't mean to pick on you woodbine, especially as you have said you don't wish to diminish Damon'rs abilities, but isn't the abilty a set up a car and to get the most from your machine a fundamental aspect of being a racing driver?

Hill may not have been spectacular, but he was fast and scientific.

[santori]

Not sure.
Perhaps on raw speed I'd go with JV but with development Damon. Although Damon was incredibly fast at times and I think Jacques developmental skills are underrated.

Damon almost won the first GP for two teams. But then his Arrows was perfectly suited to Hungary. And Jacques could well have won in Canada in 2000 if his team had fitted the tyres he requested.


????? Hmmm.

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore

Ermm... here is another one http://tentenths.com/forum/misc.php?...ge=1#behaviour (final sentence, last paragraph!)

If you would like this forum to appear on your own website please read about our forum affiliates scheme.

:confused:

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Well there is an obvious answer, but JV didn't get through cleanly.

Er, that was in a superior Williams as well

The best I can think of is his charge through the field in Austria in 2002. He was the only source of excitement at all in that race.

[DaveOrama]

Hill was better...but only just. His driving style was great to watch - he made the car flow.

Unfortunately JV's move to BAR meant we never saw him in a competive car and now we probably never will.