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Old 25 Feb 2015, 00:26 (Ref:3508624)   #251
kbeech
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How about IMSA USCC just dump prototypes all together and run GTLM/GTD?

Well, my one post for the year. Back to lurk mode!!
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 00:39 (Ref:3508625)   #252
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Cue Horndawg's reminder that IMSA's not ditching prototypes and going all GT anytime soon
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 00:40 (Ref:3508626)   #253
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European France against Florida France.

I see your absurd proposal and will up it with two new absurd proposals.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 00:47 (Ref:3508627)   #254
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Carbsmith, if that were the result we would all be lucky.

However as far as i can see FIA really doesn't have any use for privateers in P1.

The cost to field a competitive P1 car is on par with a competitive F1 program, and we can see from F1 that they can't keep their grid full. Full-on, top-of-the-line, cutting-edge racing cars are just too expensive for any but the biggest budgeted manufacturers.

Sure, some of the smaller constructors could make P1 chassis, but no one wants a P1-L. HPD had a P1 chassis ready to build, if anybody wanted one. No one did, because no one wants to spend a quarter-billion dollars to be seventh or eighth--at best.

Those small consturctors like Onroak and Oreca Sold P2 chassis. If Onroak, Orca, and HPD get the contracts, all the rest will be out of business, of forced to make track-day cars and LMP-3s and hopefully will not all go belly-up.

No way those companies are going to make any money with P1 programs when no one wants to pay for the cars. No way they are going to build P1 cars on spec--ask Peter Wirth.

What worries me is that if, in a few years, some of the P1 factories decide to move on, there won't be a lot of small constructors ready to step up with new P1 designs, and if the four annointed companies do, they won't have the capacity to also make P2s.

Drive out the small constructors, and they won't be there when Peugeot pulls out at the last second and only Audi is left. Toyota saved ACO last time; who will step up if VAG and Toyota decide its no longer worth it, and Nissan's front-engined car gets some publicity but can't compete?

Suddenly its 20-30 years ago and Le Mans is lame? GTP has to come over to save the series? Great, except GTP will be DP, and suddenly the stupidity of driving out small constructors will be apparent.

Of course, in five years TUSC maybe moribund as well, as these castrated spec-mobiles aren't going to keep fans coming to the track. TUSC is coming closer than ever to Rolex 2.0--which is awesome, seeing how well the first iteration fared.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 01:04 (Ref:3508633)   #255
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Spec engine is fairly in line with the intent and the spirit of the category. Just think of it as a Cosworth DFV.

Manufacturer limit is entirely at odds with it and generally some revived IRL/Grand-Am suicidal nonsense. Reasonably there's no reason to believe Daytona would have a problem with this as long as they're allowed their own engines as such, overmanaging everything is what they love.

Really the only thing P2 has going for it is that all the small constructors that used to make P1s are there, otherwise the specification and performance level is rather boring. So while this takes that away, pushing people back into P1 isn't so bad.
Yeah, except the Cosworth DFV wasn't mandated to be used by everyone...they just all picked it because it was the best.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 01:14 (Ref:3508637)   #256
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Cue Horndawg's reminder that IMSA's not ditching prototypes and going all GT anytime soon
What, can't handle the truth?









L.P.

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Old 25 Feb 2015, 02:01 (Ref:3508648)   #257
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Just ask the guy who posted before I did--someone else who wants IMSA to drop to being GT only like it was prior to 1981.

It can happen, but the ACO are going to have to ditch prototypes first (not going to happen), and even if they did, I'd bet that IMSA would try and do something to keep the class going for a few years after the ACO pulled the plug.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 02:04 (Ref:3508650)   #258
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Well so far this is just a proposal, anything could change. I hope


It is interesting that it is IMSA that will have different engine regs from the rest of the world.

Maybe, if they keep with old regs all those P2 cars that can't be raced anywhere anymore in Europe will race in the TUSC series.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 05:56 (Ref:3508673)   #259
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Maybe, if they keep with old regs all those P2 cars that can't be raced anywhere anymore in Europe will race in the TUSC series.
If IMSA is dedicated to keeping prototypes, I'd do just this. "Hey, you got a P2 car that isn't one of the 'approved' ones? Bring it to IMSA, it's legal here." They will lose badly out of this rules proposal, so to heck with it, if they must keep prototypes keep the rules you have now (screw it, include the DPs and the DeltaWing) and toss the doors open. You want everyone to sell their cars? How about no....
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 11:29 (Ref:3508758)   #260
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Seems like Jim France is balking:
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/11377...ona-prototypes
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 12:04 (Ref:3508769)   #261
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That's just a fear mongering way of saying "We're gonna grandfather them in for a year or two, just like we've always done when there's a major rule change."
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 12:51 (Ref:3508783)   #262
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Told you so.

I am not surprised at all by this. FIA wants to make LMP-2 into a cheap pro-am customer class—cheaper than it is now—to get the rich sportsmen and unfunded pros into the series, but doesn't want anything except P1 at the head of the class.

P2 has basically been a 'spec" class all along, as the engines are sealed and the bodywork homologated. When mention was made of a common tub, it was plain that FIA envisioned something between DTM and Formula Le Mans/PC—identical low-cost cars with minimum adjustability and identical (though I figured everyone would get to make their own) low-stress/low-output motors for even lower operating costs and everything simplified so privateers wouldn't complain too much.

Single-make spec engine is a way to get someone to pay the series for promotion—makes good business sense for FIA—because they have LMP-1.

My point all along has been that FIA really doesn't give a crap about P2 because all it has ever been is a low-cost, cost-capped, pseudo-spec class for rich businessmen. FIA has LMP-1 and GTE and the other classes are there to fill grids and pay entry fees.

This could kill TUSC, because U.S. fans would be stuck with essentially more DPs—low-tech spec cars where innovation is limited to livery and performance is fixed by the factory prior to sale. Of course, the folks at NASCAR probably think this will work just fine—after all, they have kept the DP around for a dozen years and apparently think it has always been just fine.

Here is another thought: NASCAR basically owns Coyote chassis, as far as I know, and only one American chassis maker is supposed to be one of the four.
There IS one way to bring TUSCC back up. It's sad, but it would also bring the prestige of Daytona, Sebring and Petit back.

They should dump prototypes all together. "Spec" and "Prototype" together is an Oxymoron. VIR demonstrated that a good competitive GT field with top manufacturers up front will sell races just fine. Without prototypes being ACTUAL prototypes I simply don't care about them (along with many other fans).

The GTE/GT Pro racing though...that has really grown on me.

Prototypes other than LMP-1....MEH
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 12:53 (Ref:3508785)   #263
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How about IMSA USCC just dump prototypes all together and run GTLM/GTD?

Well, my one post for the year. Back to lurk mode!!
++
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 13:16 (Ref:3508807)   #264
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Sure that some companies/manufacturers like GM and Coyote wanted to keep DPs until the series gone kaput, but they shouldn't do that.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 13:33 (Ref:3508818)   #265
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That's just a fear mongering way of saying "We're gonna grandfather them in for a year or two, just like we've always done when there's a major rule change."
Far as I'm concerned they've already been grandfathered 3 years through 2016.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 13:44 (Ref:3508825)   #266
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I'm sure the current PC cars will be grandfathered into 2017 (and probably 2018) as well.

The prospect of lean, very lean domestic prototype racing in the US in the next couple of years is looming...
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 13:46 (Ref:3508827)   #267
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I'm sure the current PC cars will be grandfathered into 2017 (and probably 2018) as well.

The prospect of lean, very lean domestic prototype racing in the US in the next couple of years is looming...
For the sake of the big races it would be better if big manufacturer funded GTE teams fought for wins instead of lean spec prototypes.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 13:49 (Ref:3508830)   #268
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I've called that from day 1.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 14:09 (Ref:3508840)   #269
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They should dump prototypes all together. "Spec" and "Prototype" together is an Oxymoron.

The GTE/GT Pro racing though...that has really grown on me.
This. Put a BHF on the PC cars. Open the restrictor a bit and have one class. The paddock will b!tch, but it's the fans that are true stakeholders in this.
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 14:12 (Ref:3508846)   #270
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Well, there's always the 'comfort' of hope to get another WEC race in North America come 2017...
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Old 25 Feb 2015, 14:15 (Ref:3508848)   #271
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Yeah... at 6 Hours of Indianapolis... exciting...

@HJJ Think he said dump all the protos, not merge...
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Old 3 Apr 2015, 16:53 (Ref:3523442)   #272
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Hopefully the GT3 category in TUSC in 2016 can get to 20+ full season teams. Is that not unreasonable?

The schedule should be changed for sure next year compared to 2015 to take this into account. I think P and GTLM teams can handle one more round. They should run 11 races. Leave GT3 to 10. LMPC to 9 or 10. You can probably add one new track to the schedule somewhere. Maybe Miller Park in Utah since there is huge hole geographically right now that this extra race idea can fill. Another idea is to have a street race where IMSA is the main show. NO Indycar or even Formula E presence! Would love Washington DC to come back, but its about who can poney up the cash to promote the race properly. Anybody can get their local city councils to volunteer?

Would love to see Lime Rock feature a GTD only race next year since full GT3's will be there. That would be a neat event to have just once a year. Laguna should go back to split P/GTLM and LMPC/GTD. That worked well in 2014.

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Old 3 Apr 2015, 17:54 (Ref:3523463)   #273
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There's like, nothing in Utah in general.
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Old 3 Apr 2015, 21:32 (Ref:3523546)   #274
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Need more Midwest and Northwest races
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Old 3 Apr 2015, 21:44 (Ref:3523549)   #275
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Need more Midwest and Northwest races
And less of what? Add some there, you must take away from somewhere else.

What road courses are there in the "midwest"? I really don't know of other options there other than current events. Miller is terrible, but that's not really mid west. Topeka?

Northwest too. All I know is Portland, that can actually hold an event. I'd love to see PIR added, if the hippies will allow it.
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