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19 Mar 2007, 18:19 (Ref:1871601) | #1 | ||
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Hidden potential of -modern- historic racing cars
We all race cars like they were raced in the 50ties 60ties and 70ties all in the spirit of those wonderfull days!. But arent our cars not - to good- or better then they where meant in these past racing eras? your car really could do 7000rpm for more than 5 hours in 1965?? could your chassis really stand those newtonmeters of an example modern racecar?? and your brakes really never fade like they did in those days??? your thrick shockers??? you probably reflected your youthfull personal weight with the weights of your racecar in those gone eras??????
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
19 Mar 2007, 18:34 (Ref:1871620) | #2 | ||
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to mention
an MGB which can stand 7000 rpm for 6 hours a Mustang with Nascar power and thrick brakes to stop the brick an E type which finally got its engine development!! no overheating and during power a lotus twincam engine which is having ccylinderheadflow people in the 60ties never coudl have dreamt about!!! a TVR grantura or Griffith with a decent welded chassis (seamless tubes ofcourse), good shockers and and an awfull great engine (don't forget to scientifically x ray check your uprights every 3 races) a Corvette which now has apart of power a abilities to a decent way of keeping the car on the road a Ferrari 250 which was so excelent in the 60ties now to dear to race and thus hidden in museums ................................. |
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
20 Mar 2007, 23:15 (Ref:1872687) | #3 | |||
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19 Mar 2007, 19:18 (Ref:1871663) | #4 | |
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My car was capable of 7k for 6 hours in period, and still is thanks very much
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19 Mar 2007, 19:30 (Ref:1871671) | #5 | |||
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so now judge twincams Zef???? |
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
19 Mar 2007, 20:46 (Ref:1871734) | #6 | ||
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I think that an awfull lot of power has been realised mainly with cylinder head porting /cam profiles/valve design.Back in the sixtys,BMC [works] could only obtain 140bhp from a stage six MGB,which at the time was considered fantastic then,in actual fact it should have been closer to 155bhp.Apart from the engine mods ,there really was not that much difference to a road car.The big healeys on the other hand were quite different eventualy,tripple webbers ,alloy head etc but they were lucky to obtain more than 220 in its ultimate form.Apart from overboring,these figures by todays standards are considerably lower than you would hope for out of your freshly built engine.
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
19 Mar 2007, 20:49 (Ref:1871737) | #7 | |||
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
19 Mar 2007, 21:12 (Ref:1871757) | #8 | ||
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Esper As everything in motor racing is so expensive I personaly will spend as much as it takes to make a period race engine hold together . I don't see any sense in doing a race at a decent cicuit like Spa to blow the engine to bits using period parts if you don't have to. I could build an engine for my car for 2K and go racing but to be competitive I have to spend 3 or 4 times more.
I am a very competitive guy and don't just go out to make up the numbers. A long time back when I raced the ovals, there was a price limit on an engine that was tried for a while where you could buy another competitors unit complete for a fixed rate. This led to the top guys going slower and after a short time was dropped following complaints and a number of blow ups. I can't see this being used in classic racing today as everybody wants as much (or more) power as the next guy. Last edited by GORDON STREETER; 19 Mar 2007 at 21:18. |
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19 Mar 2007, 21:38 (Ref:1871777) | #9 | ||
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Knew you must have been on oval man at one time, thats why your car looks like Polley's!!
Byt the way he brought out a new one a few years back, and is still quick when he turns up in Classic Hot Rods! |
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19 Mar 2007, 21:41 (Ref:1871779) | #10 | |||
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but they can still break, even at Spa......... |
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
20 Mar 2007, 23:13 (Ref:1872686) | #11 | |||
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21 Mar 2007, 21:23 (Ref:1873402) | #12 | ||
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Hey Esper, who is Longman? Is it that small fella who looks like a meerkat and goes by the name Dave.....?
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21 Mar 2007, 21:41 (Ref:1873419) | #13 | |||
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most important, I got a superb MGB head which is still on one of my engines. Was always among the fastest on the lowlands and good part of a reliable package. chapeau to these guys |
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
19 Mar 2007, 22:29 (Ref:1871819) | #14 | ||
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Chunder George built my car in 1988 and as I posted elsewhere he may do some two driver races with me this year in the Heritage series (lets hope)
Last edited by GORDON STREETER; 19 Mar 2007 at 22:33. |
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20 Mar 2007, 08:03 (Ref:1872045) | #15 | ||
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Lets hope George does come out Gordon,Its always good to see the names out there.I think its brilliant that people like Alec Poole come out for the likes of the Six Hour.
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
20 Mar 2007, 08:37 (Ref:1872064) | #16 | |||
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
20 Mar 2007, 09:57 (Ref:1872155) | #17 | |
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from the few period articles and records I have my car ran fairly std, to 7500 max revs and delivered about 120 BHP, which is almost exactly what I had in my forst race engine for my first year.
than all of a sudden steel bits came my way, forged pistons, all meaning higher revs safely and therefore more power I have my own valves, heads and cams now all of which I'm sure are better than in period due to 40 plus years of developement. |
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20 Mar 2007, 13:11 (Ref:1872297) | #18 | ||
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Esper. I have old chevrolet works spec engine build sheets going back to the late 60's early 70's and 7800rpm was the recommended max revs even back then on the SB Chevy V8. That was using a truck steel crank and the factory pink rods (standard chevy rods are steel and a very tough piece anyhow), nothing really too special.
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20 Mar 2007, 18:53 (Ref:1872506) | #19 | |||
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
20 Mar 2007, 19:22 (Ref:1872522) | #20 | ||
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As a point, some years back, there was an article in a Mustang magazine about a fellow who wanted to vintage race a Boss 302 Mustang as close as possible to period specs.
For the engine he used an original Boss block, with original Boss 302 heads. Everything was original , or if not available as close as possible to original. The engine was blueprinted to era specs. with nothing more than standard cleanup of the heads, not porting but what is standard (even on hi-po street engines) etc. When done they went to the dyno to see how close they came to Bud Moores 460 hp his car developed when they went from two four barrels to just one. The dyno read 525 hp. It seems engine builders cannot unlearn knowledge that has become second nature, nor can parts manufacturers, make sub-grade parts to keep horsepower down to some "better" level. |
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20 Mar 2007, 19:41 (Ref:1872534) | #21 | |||
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
21 Mar 2007, 19:26 (Ref:1873267) | #22 | |||
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Bob |
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20 Mar 2007, 23:21 (Ref:1872693) | #23 | ||
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Is'nt that always the way in this game, some cars are a lot more equal than others!
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
21 Mar 2007, 01:21 (Ref:1872740) | #24 | |
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In Australia one of the best things about Historic street cars is that there are always new developments and the top people just love to win and the spectators love them for it---the old traditions of bending the rules a bit never die.
HOWEVER our historics then and now never went 6 hours.The very best of our early Seventies fields would have been the Moffat Boss Mustang,who held off the 350 Chev powered vehicles with the 302 by running a low diff ratio and pulling higher revs even at Bathurst where engine failures were common even in a 20 lap race.[not for Moffat] HAVING SAID THAT,today a 12 lap race at a shorter circuit is seen as an Historic "endurance" event but I'd love to see longer races,although most entrants are middling budget people. Lotus Cortina entrants here "with money" have built amazingly quick cars.MINIS seem to have hit the wall,MGBs are astounding since they were a joke in their antipodean heyday.However we have always had a couple of impressive Healey 3000s over the years.Back in 1968 Ross Bond in a 3000 at night meetings had the brightest glowing brake discs [through fat minilite mags] and revved the old donk to the limit through 3 x45 webers and won many races.Got in trouble for running the coolant through the rollbar when an unsuspecting flaggie went to push him,so the story goes. For Camaro lovers,our beloved V8 SUPERCAR head honchos got their knickers in a twist when it became likely that a certain Camaro in the Historic backup race for the Bathurst 1000 was going to finally get over 300 km/h down Conrod and embarass the rev limited SUPERCARS so he was sent home on a technicality. He was nowhere near their lap time and I can't imagine would have been able to run an enduro,but I could be wrong.The historics only do 5 laps at Bathurst each race over the week plus short practice IF THEY'RE LUCKY !!! |
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21 Mar 2007, 07:41 (Ref:1872867) | #25 | |||
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some Henry speak read urban myth
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71 in ZL1 form, rules changed in 72 so it had to be re engineered with a 350 & still won over the Moffat car. A shame for Ford lovers, but the facts nonetheless. Henry got its revenge when for 73 the rules were changed yet again, the Jane crew re engineered the car to comply, it defeated the Moffat Phase 3 GTHO Falcon but was disqualified as there were not 25 similar cars in Aus. A hollow win for Moffat in 73 in his much revered Ford !! Last edited by Peter Mallett; 21 Mar 2007 at 07:57. |
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