Track Days

[R59]

Absolutely.

[Al Weyman]

Maybe if they dropped the entry fees a bit it would be an encouragement to get guys in from trackdaying. I could not believe they want £185 for a race now, that is nearly a £100 more than the last time I raced in 97 and way way above inflation. This is the real problem the appallingly bad value for money motoracing compared with trackdays and they ain't cheap. Just as well Rob is trying to break the mould now all we need is the major clubs to get the message and.start getting those cars back on the circuits.

[RobC]

You guys aren't getting the point of trackdays, ok you can't race/time but thats not the reason for going on them. The point is that people can get used to driving quickly and in a safe environment with out some wanna be Schumacher t-boning you on the next corner. The question asked was do trackday bread race drivers? in short if someone enjoys trackdays and wants to go a level higher then they move into competition. Anyone that has been competing for years is going to find trackdays a bore, but if you are new to track driving and would like to see if its a hobby you want to pursue to racing then trackdays are the way to go. Agreed that some people just enjoy driving their cars to the limit, be it theirs or the car, on track where you can be confident that the local geriatric in his Volvo isn't going to pull out in front of you.

[Anuauto]

Originally Posted by RobC

Don't agree with that one I'm afraid, well at least in this neck of the woods there is no shortage of venues for sprints.

So name those sprint venues local to your area. Which events on them are vastly undersubscribed and need more entries? Then we'll list all the ones lost or being used for so-called "track days" to the exclusion of real motorsport. It's a serious problem that is worrying those directly involved in organisation and competing and there is no future for any branch of the sport if that sort of complacent comment is allowed to stand.

[Al Weyman]

I agree RobC which is why I think the amazing costs involved to go that next step will and in my opinion does put people off taking it to the next stage. I mean just to th ge through this this ARDS thing cost fortunes and does it really help, I don't think so. Same as the expensive medical, did'nt help poor old Gerry did it, some doctor must have passed him off as fit and took his money. Maybe if the MSA acceoted that a driver doing severak track days and proved by the organisers to be competant should be allowed to apply for a competition licence without the ARDS thing or at least take the written test only. I mean they don't allow competitive driving and overtaking at the Ards course do they, so it would amount to the same thing. That may help encourage some people to take the next step,

[greenamex2]

RobC - We are getting the point of track days and that is why they don't breed MANY new race drivers. They attract a different type of person.

Most racing drivers find track days boring (or get thrown out, Al).

Most track day drivers either don't have the commitment, money or desire to race.

[RobC]

Originally Posted by Anuauto

So name those sprint venues local to your area. Which events on them are vastly undersubscribed and need more entries? Then we'll list all the ones lost or being used for so-called "track days" to the exclusion of real motorsport. It's a serious problem that is worrying those directly involved in organisation and competing and there is no future for any branch of the sport if that sort of complacent comment is allowed to stand.

One of our most popular venues is Castle Combe, which as you probably know the circuit is always in constant use with trackdays etc. We also have events at Colerne, Dunkeswell, North Weald, St Eval, Llandow, Merryfields etc etc. As for under-subscribed, I don't know of any of the events run by the ASWMC that are under subscribed. For a fact I know that our recent Castle Combe event had 30 people of the reserve list (160 car meeting). It sounds like from what you are saying you are struggling to fill places, is this down to venues or lack of organisation/promotion on the clubs part?

[RobC]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I agree RobC which is why I think the amazing costs involved to go that next step will and in my opinion does put people off taking it to the next stage. I mean just to th ge through this this ARDS thing cost fortunes and does it really help, I don't think so. Same as the expensive medical, did'nt help poor old Gerry did it, some doctor must have passed him off as fit and took his money. Maybe if the MSA acceoted that a driver doing severak track days and proved by the organisers to be competant should be allowed to apply for a competition licence without the ARDS thing or at least take the written test only. I mean they don't allow competitive driving and overtaking at the Ards course do they, so it would amount to the same thing. That may help encourage some people to take the next step,

*DING* I've been speed eventing for the past 2 years almost and I'll be going upto racing next year. But I am still looking at the best part of a grand to get started ARDS, new overalls, new helmet, medical etc. Then £180 for a 12 lap race and 15 mins qualifying, does make trackdays look very good value.

[greenamex2]

Where will you be racing?

[RobC]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

RobC - We are getting the point of track days and that is why they don't breed MANY new race drivers. They attract a different type of person.

Most racing drivers find track days boring (or get thrown out, Al).

Most track day drivers either don't have the commitment, money or desire to race.

No they don't breed many but the do introduce people to track driving which intern might make them look at racing/speed eventing in the future. As I've said further up this thread I know of a lot (probably around 10 people) that have gone from trackdays to competition so it does happen. Hey, if you include me then thats 11

[RobC]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Where will you be racing?

Castle Combe GT's .... can't wait

[greenamex2]

Big stuff, what are you in?

[Tainan]

Think its a good cheap (relatively) way for people to start out. They probably don't learn as much as trackdays as they think they do, but it gives people a taster without having to spend £kkks to go racing. Hopefully if they enjoy trackdays some will want to move on and compete.

[RobC]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Big stuff, what are you in?

Radical ProSport ... should be entertaining

[greenamex2]

If I ever get an engine for my kit car which, incidentally, I have been using track days so far to do the development on, you can give me a wave as you come past.

[RobC]

you haven't seen me drive. What kit car do you have?

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Tainan

Think its a good cheap (relatively) way for people to start out. They probably don't learn as much as trackdays as they think they do, but it gives people a taster without having to spend £kkks to go racing. Hopefully if they enjoy trackdays some will want to move on and compete.

And some do, but there's many others that are put off by the costs involved. The costs involved to start are high, that's even if you have a competition car already, and even once you're over that entry fees are comparable to a trackday cost. For people who haven't experienced racing and so don't know the buzz it gives, they will only see the disadvantages - having to miss a lot of track time to save the money to get all the equipment, license etc, and then having to go from hours on track in a day to maybe 40 minutes race and practice. It just doesn't look good value.
I think it's a misnomer that trackday-goers all have elises or porsches and have cash to flash; the ones i've been to have been predominantly young guys with "hot hatches" or similar who could well be the future of club motorsport if they could only get into it. I've spoken to several people with regard to getting them involved in racing (i don't want to be lonely next year!) and it always seems to be the cost putting them off. A trackday is so much easier, and if you don't know what you're missing......

In this month's T&R mag one of the writers, a stock hatch driver, says that trackdays are an increasingly attracive proposition, even to race drivers. Maybe this is why series like RoadSaloons are no more?

[greenamex2]

Nothing you have ever heard off. AM Sportscars EX2 with (if it ever gets built) a Nissan 3 litre V6. I'll be on track day tyres in an overweight car so won't be that quick. Still I can always listen to the CD or watch a DVD whilst I'm going round.

I normally race a RWD Corolla GT in Toyo mod prods, the kit car is my road car.

I suppose the point I'm making is I am doing track days as a means to an end, but would much rather be racing despite the possible cost arguments (which are by no means conclusive unless you consider number of possible laps as value). Hopefully other people doing track days are in a similar position and are just waiting for the funds/experience/confidence to cross over.

My experience has been an only slightly larger trickle to racing than the reverse, but fingers crossed.

[greenamex2]

Teej - The reason road saloons (and others) are no more is probably the subject of another thread, wouldn't want this one to get bogged down with that old chestnut!

[RobC]

AM Sportscars EX2 - Google is my friend, that looks like a smaller NSX, looks nice! So what DVD are you planning on watching? Le Mans? or Fast and Furious?

RWD Corolla Toyota - my mate has always craved one of those (he's a big Yota nut)

Back to the topic, the biggest thing that has kept me out of racing has been cost, for reasons I won't go into now I'm finally in a position to afford to race.

[greenamex2]

Teletubbies. I'll probably have to bring my new baby along!!!

Assuming you didn't rob a bank you found a way.

I became a contractor rather than a nice safe permanent employee to fund racing and am now selling all my Toyota spares and developing dash displays/gear indicators etc in my spare time to continue racing whilst the wife lounges around looking after the baby and watching Gerry Springer.

This is what I mean by many track day people not having sufficient commitment to race. Track days are 'too easy'.

[RobC]

Teletubbies.. LOL!

Might have to give you a shout when I get the Prosport as I am looking for a decent dash for one.

Trackdays are cheap/easy compared to racing, that said people that do lots of them are still probably shelling out a lot of cash on tyres/brakes and other consumables.

[greenamex2]

Funnily enough, that is what is putting some of the local 'sports car' drivers off doing them. Because you can do an entire racing seasons track mileage in one track day you can put a lot of wear on a car. It seems even track days are too expensive for some!

My race car would last about one track day (assuming using all available time and running at race speeds) before needing a complete rebuild of the engine, gearbox, brakes, diff etc. In that respect whilst I would have had a lot of miles for not much money I would have only had one days enjoyment, followed by a four thousand pound plus bill!

I suppose I could race something cheaper but that would be boring.

[Tony Crossley]

From my experience I don't beleive trackdays teach you to drive 'racing fast' anyway.
The lack of presure and competition means you never hit that high level of speed and commitment - you migth think you have but not really.

I remember a few years ago when my brother entered the Locost champsionship, we took the car to Donington for a trackday to test it out, and he was racing at Donington a few weeks later.

During the day we got the car gogin what we thought was very fast, chasing Lotus's etc all from 1300cc. Brilliant. Had a video camera going, timed the laps at him. Didn;t think he could push the car faster around the track.
At the race he suddenyl had 30 other cars all racing and chasing, he had to use more commitment on the throttle earlier in the bend, later braking, more corner speed. In the end he went around 5 seconds a lap faster than he had managed on clear laps on the trackday - when he thought that was it!

Becuase of this, I don't think the average trackday driver does leanr as much as they think about speed. They certainly don't learn much about dealing with and running close to traffic.
I enjoy taking the race car to odd trackdays, mainly to give passenger rides, and it's telling that even my crappy old racer (MGB) can spend all monstering modern sports cars of vastly more power and grip. There is a minor amount of cross over, IE:Some people enjoy trackdays and have the desire to race, but I think they gravitate towards racing as soon as they can. There is a hardcore base of trackdayers who have no interest in racing - different personalities. You might say some people don't like to be beat, and do trackdays to appear to be the fast driver they actually are not - if you know what I mean.

[Al Weyman]

Good point about the consummable costs duriing a track day. Which brings me on to another point, equating value for money with actual track time. I don't know about others and I have not raced for 8 years and was hoping to return on the bank holiday till the Range Rover died of rust virus (unless I can find a replacement), I digress.... anyhow the point I was trying to make I found after 10 or sometimes 12 lap races not being the fittest person about and not in the first flourish of youth, from about lap 8 I found myself wishing the flag to drop as I was getting either knackered or just bored especially if there was no close action and running midfield, almost had to pinch myself sometimes to stay away if you know what I mean. ;-)

As for paying twice as much to do a 30 minute stint like in Top Hats I really don't think I could go the distance and much prefer the sound of the two sprint race format of the TRC series with a blow inbetween for us old gits. And it is same thing with the track days, once you have done 20 or so laps it just gets ruddy boring, end of story.