Hidden potential of -modern- historic racing cars

[terence]

Johnny,4.5in wheels! When I first started racing my FIA MGB,I retained the standard type wheels until I saw a video of the car going around Copse at Silverstone,Flex would be a good word to use. As for the amount of bent cars around,thats down to insufficient policing/knowing the Scrutineers I,m affraid.If all of the cars had been checked at thier initial build,then policed properly,then perhaps we would all be racing at level terms.I suppose we could bang on about this subject forever,but until the powers that be actually do something possitive about it ,the problem will remain.

[terence]

I had to go to Silverstone Saturday and got talking to some one who actually alows "B"s to run 1950s,now quite a few of those owners of said cars do the Six Hour,will they invest in an engine just for Spa? unlikely I,d say,they will turn up in the hope that they dont get caught,the organiser,s dont want to check capacity,s because of the time factor/they dont want to lose cars from the grid.But if one day[as at Silverstone]a couple of years back,someone actually had the ball,s to have these cars checked,then who cares if the bent cars get trailered and taken home,the race should be closer anyway.Lets face it,you do not need to remove cylinder heads to find the capacity of a given engine,perhaps the money from the new HTP,s could fund the required equipment

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I had to go to Silverstone Saturday and got talking to some one who actually alows "B"s to run 1950s,now quite a few of those owners of said cars do the Six Hour,will they invest in an engine just for Spa? unlikely I,d say,they will turn up in the hope that they dont get caught,the organiser,s dont want to check capacity,s because of the time factor/they dont want to lose cars from the grid.But if one day[as at Silverstone]a couple of years back,someone actually had the ball,s to have these cars checked,then who cares if the bent cars get trailered and taken home,the race should be closer anyway.Lets face it,you do not need to remove cylinder heads to find the capacity of a given engine,perhaps the money from the new HTP,s could fund the required equipment

I would be tempted to get an MGB if this was cleared up as it seems that an 1840 engine is going to be penailsed heavily in torque over the 1950 ones. I would be intrigued to know what time an 1840 engine can do Spa in - my bet would be something in the region of 3.15 rather than the sub 3.10's that at least one car produced last year

[GORDON STREETER]

Simon we will never know now about Spa times, so the only way out of this I think ,is to sign a form with the alleged engine size on it so at any protest there couldn't be any argument by the driver !

[zefarelly]

good point Gordon, and exactly what Carol Spagg asks us to do for U2TC

if you don't build your own engine then the engine builder signs to say exactly whats inside. I'm sure no one will end up in court, but public humiliation can be a wonderful thing !

[midgetman]

>>>>>>>>so the only way out of this I think ,is to sign a form with the alleged engine size on it so at any protest there couldn't be any argument by the driver

They do already, it's called the entry form. If the driver's entered the race then they're declaring the engine size, it's their responsibility (see Jenson Button and his over-sized fuel tank). So put your protest money down in confidence.

[esper]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

Sorry, getting carried away there!

No problem, Healeys always affect peoples emotions.........

[esper]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I would be tempted to get an MGB if this was cleared up as it seems that an 1840 engine is going to be penailsed heavily in torque over the 1950 ones. I would be intrigued to know what time an 1840 engine can do Spa in - my bet would be something in the region of 3.15 rather than the sub 3.10's that at least one car produced last year

3.10 to the old Spa in an MGB is indeed a well explored hidden potential of that car (I searched it for more than 10 years but never found, but thats to the Terence/Esper MGB riddle)

[esper]

Originally Posted by midgetman

>>>>>>>>so the only way out of this I think ,is to sign a form with the alleged engine size on it so at any protest there couldn't be any argument by the driver

They do already, it's called the entry form. If the driver's entered the race then they're declaring the engine size, it's their responsibility (see Jenson Button and his over-sized fuel tank). So put your protest money down in confidence.

You are 1000% right, but if I go racing protesting doesn't add al lot to a splendid weekend in my case. I would say in the view of event costs these days, good survey of the entered cars has something to do with the quality of the organiser....

[terence]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I would be tempted to get an MGB if this was cleared up as it seems that an 1840 engine is going to be penailsed heavily in torque over the 1950 ones. I would be intrigued to know what time an 1840 engine can do Spa in - my bet would be something in the region of 3.15 rather than the sub 3.10's that at least one car produced last year

Simon,my Engine size is 1.2mm overbore,which is 1853.6cc,as declared on here for all to see.On 5year old 008s I have seen 3.08.19,on ZZs it will comfortably do mid 12s.The car is to full works spec,no trick suspension ,etc.I,m sure that had the 08 been my first race of the year,it would have been in the 7s.

[terence]

Absolutly correct,every time we sign an entry form we declare that the car conforms to the reg,s,and also when we sign the HTP,this is what Jeremy was on about,if we say the car is as signed,if it is different we are actually commiting a fraudulent act.I think it,s about time this was put to the test.If every owner was aware of this risk,I wonder if it would make a difference.

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by terence bower

As for the amount of bent cars around,thats down to insufficient policing/knowing the Scrutineers I,m affraid.

Together with apathy and a desire to fill the grids to the maximum by the organisers.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

Together with apathy and a desire to fill the grids to the maximum by the organisers.

EXACTLY!!

[esper]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Simon,my Engine size is 1.2mm overbore,which is 1853.6cc,as declared on here for all to see.On 5year old 008s I have seen 3.08.19,on ZZs it will comfortably do mid 12s.The car is to full works spec,no trick suspension ,etc.I,m sure that had the 08 been my first race of the year,it would have been in the 7s.

be aware last few years track changes did a lot to lap times, so comparing is difficult

[johnny yuma]

Isn't that on the entry form and signed already?

[terence]

I am fully aware of that Esper,those times are from 2004,I have not raced the "B" for 2yrs,been too busy,Im now getting it ready for this year

[terence]

Originally Posted by johnny yuma

Isn't that on the entry form and signed already?

Yes John,it is,I dont enter it as 1840/45.The car is completely legal,as Jeremy will shortly confirm.

[Peter Mallett]

I see from Classic Cars that Harvey Bailey Engineering are producing direct replacemt lever type dampers for DB4/5/6 Astons. When tested at spa a DB4 went 5 secs quicker! More development or should these be banned for historic competiton?

[terence]

If we can belive that claim Peter!Have you seen the price of them *******hell! If those shocks are EXACTLY the same then good luck to the people who can afford them.One good thing for say an MGB is the twin valve shockers as fitted to Austin A55/60s,hen,s teeth does,nt come into it.

[Peter Mallett]

Yup,

The point being that these are available and if the claims are half right then do we agree on their use?

[terence]

Like I said,if they are to the same spec etc etc ,what could we do to stop thier use.It comes down to FIA regs really.Sure they would be an advantage,costly one at that,then all the other Aston owners would want them thus putting up the cost of being competetive,looking at it from this point of view,no they not be allowed,but Aston owners usally get what they want in the end!!

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Aston owners usally get what they want in the end!!

as if having Aston Race cars isn't enough . . .some people eh

[terence]

I know what you mean Zef

[Slippy Diff]

Are the internals the same? Would love to know what they have done to them to achieve those times.

[esper]

Originally Posted by Slippy Diff

Are the internals the same? Would love to know what they have done to them to achieve those times.

had a talk with some dutch shocker guys (we are not bad at that) problem is piston/ body play so they might have done something there (Bailey)? problem with those things is they work when cold and then woosh.....
and then there is the valve thing , they go always parallel bounce and rebounce, I can tell you something can be done there.

And then to Peters point. you are absoltuely right but you have to admit that the shocks your car had in the sixties where "bicycle tyre pumps" and now yours have the quality of good Koni 2 way F1 shockes of the sixties!!!!!!
Can we have some development to our old english "village waterpump" Armstrongs. This is one big item for the "hidden potential" (I mainly talk MGB and Healey) league.