BMW to quit the WTCC?

[Hazard]

Maybe they could seal the deal with DTM. Audi, Mercedes and BMW! Ooooh, nah that can't happen - it'd be too perfect.

[werner]

Originally Posted by THIM

Sprint races are much easier to televise and probably that's why WTCC races are so short. Remember, there must be time for tennis and football on the Sunday afternoon.

The Fia GT-races take 2 hours, and there are plans to shorten them to 1,5 hour. Not that much longer than 2x 50km, especially when you consider that Eurosport does more coverage of the pre-race grid and a zillion replays of the first race between the 2 races than live coverage of the races themselves.

[gregc]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Regardless of if its the BTCC, STCC or wherever he clearly said they may look at supporting their customers (which in the BTCC would be RAC & Airwaves) rather than competing as a factory team. Excellent news for those teams if it happens.

It's worth pointing out that BMW already provide support to their customers - particularly at the first couple of rounds of a season, you will often see a BMW technician/engineer advising the BMW teams. Even the smaller teams - at the BTCC opener last year there was a BMW rep with AFM all weekend. Bearing that in mind, I'd interpret Theissens comment as indicating that they will continue to support their customers, even if they pull out of a works effort.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by gregc

Bearing that in mind, I'd interpret Theissens comment as indicating that they will continue to support their customers, even if they pull out of a works effort.

Exactly what I meant

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by awrb

There's no reason to continue with ROAL and RBM when Schnitzer is BMW Motorsport, and the one car per team thing would probably be the least effective and most expensive way of doing it. Maybe dropping RBM and ROAL and having Schnitzer run Muller, Farfus and Priaulx would be their best option, but then SEAT would have too many more cars so an advantage, unless they dropped ORECA.

It does make sense because the local BMW firms pay for running BMW Italia, BMW Espana and BMW UK. You drop RBM and ROAL and you lose the support from the national teams. Also, getting Priaulx to leaving RBM would be hard

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Exactly what I meant

Except he said they are looking into OTHER touring car series. Meaning they would look to support their customers in other series (not just the WTCC).

And if there is no BMW factory effort in the WTCC next year then that is the end of the championship because Seat and Chevrolet would use it as a great excuse to pull out also. What we are seeing here is the begining of the end for the WTCC.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

It does make sense because the local BMW firms pay for running BMW Italia, BMW Espana and BMW UK. You drop RBM and ROAL and you lose the support from the national teams. Also, getting Priaulx to leaving RBM would be hard

It depends wether the local BMW firms decide to leave the series for more traditional and effective promotion. And I think "Andy, RBM will not be backed by BMW Motorsport next year, here's a nice juicy cheque to come join us at Schnitzer" should do the trick. If they wanted to get dirty they could even threaten not to help RBM if they go independent. Not that I think BMW would do that, it would get them a lot of bad press.

I'd like to see BMW let him run with RBM in the BTCC against the works Volvo's and maybe another manufacturer, but I think any manufacturer in the BTCC would have to be nearly entirely funded by outside sponsors, and I think sponsors would prefer their name and backing not to be dwarfed by any manufacturer.

[gwyllion]

Can someone explain why BMW never raced their diesel engine? This way they could enjoy the same advantages as Seat.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Can someone explain why BMW never raced their diesel engine? This way they could enjoy the same advantages as Seat.

They said at the time that, in essence, they thought it would be counter-productive to a dynamic and popular championship. In other words the fans would stay away in their droves if over half the field were Diesels (which is true).

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

And if there is no BMW factory effort in the WTCC next year then that is the end of the championship because Seat and Chevrolet would use it as a great excuse to pull out also. What we are seeing here is the begining of the end for the WTCC.

Isn't it likely the beancounters at GM will demand the end of any motorsport activity? Much like what Vauxhall has done. Any ideas when Chevy usually announce the next years participation? If the WTCC does die, then you have to say that RML has been very smart to get a BTCC team running again.

Whilst it'd be nice for a works BMW team in the BTCC, haven't we all got quite used to the idea of a fully independant grid from next year, not taking into account the Volvo stories. I don't know if it'd necessarily be a good thing for the BTCC. Assuming they want to stick with S2000 you would assume it to be the BTCC then the STCC they look at in terms of international popularity. Don't see DTM as a possibility as then that takes them away from S2000.

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Can someone explain why BMW never raced their diesel engine? This way they could enjoy the same advantages as Seat.

BMW wants to race and, most important, sell customer racing cars. Diesel race engines on WTCC level would be way too expensive and high-maintenance for customer racing, so they decided against diesel in WTCC.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

BMW wants to race and, most important, sell customer racing cars. Diesel race engines on WTCC level would be way too expensive and high-maintenance for customer racing, so they decided against diesel in WTCC.

Exactly. Priaulx, Zanardi and Jorg Muller all told me that this was the reason why they didn't want to switch to a diesel project.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by awrb

It depends wether the local BMW firms decide to leave the series for more traditional and effective promotion. And I think "Andy, RBM will not be backed by BMW Motorsport next year, here's a nice juicy cheque to come join us at Schnitzer" should do the trick. If they wanted to get dirty they could even threaten not to help RBM if they go independent. Not that I think BMW would do that, it would get them a lot of bad press.

I'd like to see BMW let him run with RBM in the BTCC against the works Volvo's and maybe another manufacturer, but I think any manufacturer in the BTCC would have to be nearly entirely funded by outside sponsors, and I think sponsors would prefer their name and backing not to be dwarfed by any manufacturer.

Yes, the laughing emoticon shows I was just joking. Obviously Priaulxis a professional race driver and he wouldn't be too sorry to go back to the UK. But, TBH, I don't think they will go to the BTCC to be the only manufacturer in the field. If Volvo comes in, and Kia does so (as rumours say that Kia people have been seen @888's garage), then it would make sense. Otherwise, competing in a championship in which they already have 5 customer cars and putting in a triple World Champion team and driver means they can only lose. A works BMW competing against an all-independent field? Doesn't make much sense, both commercially and communication-wise.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Except he said they are looking into OTHER touring car series. Meaning they would look to support their customers in other series (not just the WTCC).

And if there is no BMW factory effort in the WTCC next year then that is the end of the championship because Seat and Chevrolet would use it as a great excuse to pull out also. What we are seeing here is the begining of the end for the WTCC.

The other TC series in Europe are BTCC, STCC and DTC (the main ones), and there already are BMW customers in all of them. I think he meant that they will increase the support to the customers, since they have quite a few people who will not have anything to do, since they're not doing the WTCC anymore.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, we have a very difficult situation. I hope he's just showing off BMW's political power, because otherwise the series is screwed.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Yes, the laughing emoticon shows I was just joking.

I wasn't sure, so I thought I'd make sure.

As for the Kia rumour, how long has this been going on? Every year Kia are rumoured to enter, and again I can't really see it unless there's a load of manufacturers all went on at the same time.

I suppose Proton have unfinished bussiness in the BTCC!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

The other TC series in Europe are BTCC, STCC and DTC (the main ones), and there already are BMW customers in all of them. I think he meant that they will increase the support to the customers, since they have quite a few people who will not have anything to do, since they're not doing the WTCC anymore.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, we have a very difficult situation. I hope he's just showing off BMW's political power, because otherwise the series is screwed.

Maybe one of the English native speakers can help me out with this one:

Theissen: "We are looking at other touring car categories"

What is the meaning of the word "category" in this sentence? Is it just another word for "series"? Or -and it sounds like that to me - does "category" describe in this case a different kind of touring car racing, i.e. one run to a different ruleset, like DTM or 24h-Spezial? I think BMW could sell a lot of cars in the latter category, if they created a turn-key and reasonably priced rival for Porsches 997 GT3 Cup...

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Maybe one of the English native speakers can help me out with this one:

Theissen: "We are looking at other touring car categories"

What is the meaning of the word "category" in this sentence? Is it just another word for "series"? Or -and it sounds like that to me - does "category" describe in this case a different kind of touring car racing, i.e. one run to a different ruleset, like DTM or 24h-Spezial? I think BMW could sell a lot of cars in the latter category, if they created a turn-key and reasonably priced rival for Porsches 997 GT3 Cup...

He means other touring car series - where their customers race their cars.

[helgi]

Isn't it a synonym for 'rank' or 'class' and not just another TCC?

[awrb]

It could mean either really. Technically category would mean something like 'class', like Helgi suggested, but you know what the english language is like.

Thiessen could also mean national TCC as a different category or rank compared to the world series. The only other big TCC in terms of regs is DTM, and unless there is a major change there I can't see that happening.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

or 24h-Spezial? I think BMW could sell a lot of cars in the latter category, if they created a turn-key and reasonably priced rival for Porsches 997 GT3 Cup...

Keep in mind that they did try that with the Z4.
And it's not really touring cars either...

[helgi]

They could extend their support for Schnitzer with M3 GT2 coupe. Besides, Theissen and other manufacturers have talks with Ulrich and Haug for some years already. Maybe they've found some 'commonwealth'. There're too many variants.
Understand me right - I don't mean something against WTCC or TCC. But total equalization is an awful and terrible thing. Keep it by the board. Let the fastest driver and the fastest car win. I think Theissen is the same opinion.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by helgi

I think Theissen is the same opinion.

Because Theissen had never been interested in the system before, cause BMW won 4 championships in a row with that set of rules.
Truth is, if you don't help Chevy to be as competitive as the others, they will pull out - simple as that. This is not Formula One, where if you put a lot of money in you are most likely at the top. TC racing includes the aerodynamics of the road model, the original weight of the car, if it's FWD or RWD and so on: it needs equalization for all these reasons. If you don't accept it, it's your respectable opinion, but maybe you should watch Formula One or GP2 rather than WTCC and BTCC.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

BMW wants to race and, most important, sell customer racing cars. Diesel race engines on WTCC level would be way too expensive and high-maintenance for customer racing, so they decided against diesel in WTCC.

But why don't they use a diesel in their manufacturer cars and sell a petrol powered car to customer teams? This works for Seat.

[werner]

Speed-King: Maybe one of the English native speakers can help me out with this one:

Theissen: "We are looking at other touring car categories"

Have in mind that Theissen himself is a German speaker. I would not be surprised if you could understand him speaking Englisch just as well as an Englisch speaker.

Helterskelter: This is not Formula One, where if you put a lot of money in you are most likely at the top.

Tell that at Honda and Toyota headquarters... Having said that, I do agree with the most of your post.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by werner

Helterskelter: This is not Formula One, where if you put a lot of money in you are most likely at the top.

Tell that at Honda and Toyota headquarters... Having said that, I do agree with the most of your post.

That's what the 'most likely' means, since Renault, Ferrari and McLaren Mercedes have been highly successful and they are the richest teams. BMW was also competitive before this year...