[WTCC] Race 17 & 18 - Oschersleben (GER), 6th September 2009

[werner]

I'm a bit dissapointed how independant independants really are. When a factorybacked driver of the same brand they all go out of they way, Seats and BMW's. Despite the 3 indypoints they get for every championshippoint.

Still, it was quite a good second race. Silly mistakes from D'Aste's team. A very good weekend for Coronel. Let's hope he can find the money to fight for the indy-title.

[Andy77]

Good result for the championship too since Seat can't run away and Farfus keeps his chances alive

[JamesRamone]

How has Larini not been given a penalty?

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by JamesRamone

How has Larini not been given a penalty?

That's the big question!

[redshoes]

Steward's decision #21 - http://www.fiawtcc.com/html/uploaded...0996175535.pdf - not issued until long after race 2.
Larini gets 30 sec added to race 1 time, plus 10 place grid drop suspended for 3 events.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Steward's decision #21 - http://www.fiawtcc.com/html/uploaded...0996175535.pdf - not issued until long after race 2.
Larini gets 30 sec added to race 1 time, plus 10 place grid drop suspended for 3 events.

At least they did something even if it doesn't help van Lagen

[Sodemo]

Amazing really that Muller managed to get 7th from last place in race two.

Not sure if that says more about the rest of the field than the ability of that car and driver.

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by Andy77

At least they did something even if it doesn't help van Lagen

The right punishment spoiling a great event for Lada, I fear Larini's days are numbered at Chevy anyway.

[Craner Curves]

Can I just say the official FIA website is rubbish. I wanted to see the video highlights and have been avoiding the result since I got home from work. What does it say below the video clips? Who won the race!!

Disgusted by Larini's actions, no need for it at all. Getting close up the front now, unfortunately it's Farfus as top BMW and not Priaulx.

[Jon411]

They should have punished Larini after the first race so that his start position for race 2 included the time penalty as he was still able to take a top grid slot and get points in Race 2 since it took them so long to decide what to do with him

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Amazing really that Muller managed to get 7th from last place in race two.

Not sure if that says more about the rest of the field than the ability of that car and driver.

Yes Jörg's race was quite amazing again. And finally it was someone else who recognized it. I fear a bit that Jörg only can be fast if his throat is swollen from a majorly binned race 1 though.

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Can I just say the official FIA website is rubbish. I wanted to see the video highlights and have been avoiding the result since I got home from work. What does it say below the video clips? Who won the race!!

Disgusted by Larini's actions, no need for it at all. Getting close up the front now, unfortunately it's Farfus as top BMW and not Priaulx.

Well, Priaulx is within 25 pts from the top. We still have six races and two of them at Macau. He is in a good range because Farfus never will survive the Macau crashfest. He will crash himself and Tarquini out but that's all about it.

[Robbe]

Jörg Müller was driving a fantastic second race, he was pushing extremely hard and had some great overtakings. It's a shame he never manages to get two decent results as he has shown again he's on the same level as Priaulx and Farfus.

Tarquini surprised me as he was very solid again - looks like his role is now taken by Larini. By the way, next race we will have two of them

[touringlegend]

First corner is ludicrous. It really beats me sometimes that it's an FIA event, let alone a supposed World championship.

I did say at the time BMW were a bit keen on the team orders earlier in the year. if Priaulx is back on form it will bite them.

[werner]

Originally Posted by Jon411

They should have punished Larini after the first race so that his start position for race 2 included the time penalty as he was still able to take a top grid slot and get points in Race 2 since it took them so long to decide what to do with him

They could have thought of that by giving him an unsuspended gridpenalty, so that he would feel the loss of places also at a startingorder as he would have if the penalty of 30 seconds was given immediately after the race. But anyway, it is good to see some punishment for unfair behaviour. Lets see what the Muller-Farfuscase will bring. Although I have not clearly seen what Farfus did wrong. It must have been adding up a few small faults from him.

[werner]

Originally Posted by Robbe

Tarquini surprised me as he was very solid again - looks like his role is now taken by Larini. By the way, next race we will have two of them

Doesn't he have a younger brother? Do you know in what kind of car the other Larini will drive? Source? Interesting anyway.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by werner

Doesn't he have a younger brother?

Andrea Larini, currently fifth in SEAT Eurocup and he'll be in the prize-drive Leon at the next WTCC round.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by werner

Lets see what the Muller-Farfuscase will bring. Although I have not clearly seen what Farfus did wrong. It must have been adding up a few small faults from him.

Muller claimed that Farfus had hit him several times along the back straight, none of which was shown on TV. This was unrelated to Muller taking himself out on the tyre stack, although I suspect had Muller not done that there would have been no protest.

The Stewards' have given Farfus a reprimand but done nothing to change the result, effectively no more than a slap on the wrist. In fact their decision even refers to it being a "very light infraction". My interpretation is that whilst Farfus may have technically been at fault it was probably no worse that what happens all the time and not really worth the paperwork of making an appear.

[Alfa Fan]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Andrea Larini, currently fifth in SEAT Eurocup and he'll be in the prize-drive Leon at the next WTCC round.

He's already raced in the WTCC before as well, at Monza and Magny Cours in 2006 for DB Motorsport in an Alfa Romeo 156.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Andy77

Larini gets 30 sec added to race 1 time, plus 10 place grid drop suspended for 3 events.

Sorry for my poor english but I am not sure I understand the second punishment. Does it mean that Larini will start 10 places further down the grid than his qualifying at Imola ... and if he does something silly again it will be the same punishment for 2 more races?

[JamesRamone]

Glad Larini was punished but still no good to Van Lagen.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Sorry for my poor english but I am not sure I understand the second punishment. Does it mean that Larini will start 10 places further down the grid than his qualifying at Imola ... and if he does something silly again it will be the same punishment for 2 more races?

It means if he does anything nasty in those 3 events he'll get the 10 place penalty.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Sorry for my poor english but I am not sure I understand the second punishment. Does it mean that Larini will start 10 places further down the grid than his qualifying at Imola ... and if he does something silly again it will be the same punishment for 2 more races?

He'll start where he qualifies at Imola, however if he does anything else wrong at Imola or the following two meetings then he will start 10 places further back.

[helterskelter]

First of all, my opinions about the races. Priaulx did an absolutely stunning job, anyone wondering why he's a triple world champion? This is what never backing down means.
Farfus-Muller: I was the guy who took his quotes, right before the decision of the stewards came out. First of all, I have to admit the guy is much nicer when he's not dominating the championship. One has to say the good things and the bad things. He looked more disappointed than angry, to be honest. Hitting the tires was none of Muller's fault: the tyres were right on the kerb, Farfus was ahead of him and could see them and therefore avoid them. Yvan had no idea the tyres were there and hit them: being right on the apex of the corner, there's not much a driver can do at that point to avoid a crash. It is clearly true that Farfus bumped him; it's as true that this is touring car racing. I don't know how hard he got hit (he said 'he hit me the hard way, three times, the last of which in the last corner, which enabled him to pass me). Certainly Farfus should calm down: remember Brno, Porto...
Great racing from Jorg and from HernÃ*ndez, too. As for the independents letting the works drivers through, one should never forget that the manufacturers still give the independents a lot of informations and support.
Anyway, I just did some calculations, only for the fun (or for the disappointment) of it.
Farfus now has 90 points, Priaulx has 66. I calculated what would Andy's season most likely have been were it not for Farfus and BMW's strategy of putting him forward in the fight for the championship. Farfus gets -8 in Porto, assuming he'd get as far as P6 starting from 10th, Priaulx gets a + 8 assuming he'd finish 4th in R1 and 4th in R2. Priaulx and Farfus get a +15, assuming they'd get such an amount of points in Brno (perhaps a bit pessimistic). Farfus gets a -8 in Brands Hatch, assuming he'd reach a 6th in R2 and no points in R1. Farfus gets a -2 in Oschersleben, assuming Priaulx would have passed him, as he was lapping considerably faster than Augusto; therefore, Andy gets a +2. Priaulx gets 25 more points, up to 91. Farfus gets a -18, down to 72.
This may be useless or purely academic, but I think this shows that if BMW had backed Andy instead of Farfus, the Brit would have still been more or less up there and would have been a much safer bet for the German manufacturer. One could argue that the Brno accident has nothing to do with BMW's strategy, but Augusto would have been more cautious and careful if he'd had to let Andy through. Instead, he claimed that 'Andy shouldn't have been there', which is what caused the accident, in his opinion. Also, one shouldn't treat a Triple World Champion (and still the only guy who has earned BMW a World crown in the modern era) as the next domestique for a guy who is yet to prove he can be a champion.

[gomick]

Who would've thought a couple of rounds ago that Yvan Muller would be 3rd in points

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by werner

I'm a bit dissapointed how independant independants really are. When a factorybacked driver of the same brand they all go out of they way, Seats and BMW's. Despite the 3 indypoints they get for every championshippoint.

Still, it was quite a good second race. Silly mistakes from D'Aste's team. A very good weekend for Coronel. Let's hope he can find the money to fight for the indy-title.

Indeed, both things are really sad. 3 points per overal point is apparently not nearly enough to offset badwill/goodwill balance relative the brand manufacturer. Would also have been nice to see D'Aste mixing it up in the fight for the indie crown (especially if TC never makes it to the last races). And Larini vs Lagen... what a prick. Too ego tripped to let a new guy in a new car get any points after a fantastic drive. Amazing the penalty didnt manage to be handed out until after race 2 but at least the penalty was given.