[DTM] Race 7 - Brands Hatch (GBR), 6th Sep 2009

[Last2LiftOff]

Brands Hatch Zeitplan:

Saturday September 5th, 2009
09:00 – 11:25 hrs DTM free practice
12:35 – 13:28 hrs DTM qualifying

Sunday September 6th, 2009
10:00 – 10:30 hrs DTM warm up
13:03 hrs DTM start race

Placement Rates:
Audi A4 '09 1050
C-Klass '09 1050
Audi A4 '08 1030
C-Klass '08 1030
Audi A4 '07 1010

A preview from Touring Car Times and the latest driver standings:

1  Scheider 35 
2  Ekström 34 
3  Paffett 29  
4  Spengler 26 
5  Tomczyk 21  
6  Di Resta 19  
7  Green 18 
8  Jarvis 14 
9  Kristensen 13 
10 Winkelhock 10 
11 Engel 8 
12 Schumacher 5 
13 Rockenfeller 2

Originally Posted by Tom Kristensen

The Brands Hatch Indy circuit is a very short track and you feel like you’re in a tumble dryer.

Originally Posted by Oliver Jarvis

I can hardly wait to be competing on my home circuit at Brands Hatch. I’m very much looking forward to the event and am expecting a great race. And I’m hoping we’re quick and can score a few points.

[Hazard]

I've got a brilliant way of getting around that lack of TV coverage this time Last2LiftOff... dunno if it's gonna work for you though

[Last2LiftOff]

Up close and personal like? GWlus

Good for you Hazard, sure fire. The only thing missing is the GP circuit...is that a safety issue for these cars?

[BertMk2]

No, the GP circuit is fine as far as safety goes - they specifically ask for the Indy circuit though.

[Hazard]

As a spectator - prefer the Indy circuit anyway. More eye/car contact time

I also thought it was partly down to the number of events that Brands Hatch can run on the GP loop - it's an extra rare treat that the BTCC will be racing on the GP loop for the finale this year in fact

[PDS]

I think if the DTM organisation insisted, they would run the GP loop for them!

But I agree, the racing will be better on the short circuit.

[helgi]

I really envy you. 93 laps with 'sensationel' cars - more than GT3. And a beautiful track.

[redshoes]

More like 93 laps with no overtaking.

I was tempted to go but after seeing the timetable I'm not sure I'll bother. Why do they need a 3.5hr time window to run a 70min race? Makes you realise how spoilt with are with the BTCC support package.

[helgi]

There're support races and demonstration runs between warm up and starting grid presentation.
DTM doesn't tune itself under spectators. It's a sport but not a show of some sort.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by helgi

There're support races and demonstration runs between warm up and starting grid presentation.

There's ONE support race between the warm up and DTM race. Most of the support races are after the main event. Actually though I was referring to the gap between the previous race (which finishes at 11:35) and the following race (which starts at 15:05). Then to make matters worse the support races are interrupted by half an hour of VIP 'taxi' rides.

DTM doesn't tune itself under spectators. It's a sport but not a show of some sort.

Are you kidding? DTM puts a lot of effort promoting itself as a big fan-friendly show.

[Andy 308GTB]

Originally Posted by redshoes

More like 93 laps with no overtaking.

I was tempted to go but after seeing the timetable I'm not sure I'll bother. Why do they need a 3.5hr time window to run a 70min race? Makes you realise how spoilt with are with the BTCC support package.

Timetable:
http://www.dtmbrandshatch.com/media/...02009%20v2.pdf

I think it's a poor package considering its one of the more expensive days at Brands (£30 on the gate). I will pop in on Sunday for the race but only because I have a season ticket.

[redshoes]

Try DTM's timetable - http://www.dtm.com/bin/timetable/tim...2009-09-06.pdf
No extra races but they try to make it like more is happening by listing the 15 min, 5 min and 3 min signals as individual activities.

[Elio]

Mr redshoes has it spot on with the window for the DTM race. It is truly appalling, and I really pity the people who just turn up because they see local advertising, or are snared by the meet Lewis trap. (Though, really, they have no excuses because the timetable is there to be looked at on the web).

Sadly, the latest forecast does not suggest rain for Race day, so my hopes of a DTM race lacking the ABSOLUTE (A1GP-style) TEDIUM of previous races have now vanished !!!

I shall be there, but again only because I have a season-pass, and because there has been a complete lack of FFord at Brands this year.

The Taxi rides later in the afternoon is just rubbing salt in the wounds!!!

I don`t blame MSVR entirely. They have various scheduling imposed on them by DTM, but for us Brits (who are used to much better days of entertainment) it`s certainly a struggle to understand how it can be value for money.

Maybe speccies will vote with their feet and this will be the last year that the Brits get to experience the continental way of doing things over here??....

[werner]

Usually you also get the Porsche Carreracup in the DTM-package. That is a very high profile series with good drivers. And also the SEat Cupra cup is normally present at DTM-events, wich is quite good to. With those races instead of FF and that old-car-serie the value you get is quite allright imo.
That offcourse leaves the ridiculously long waitingtime before and after the main race. That is really stupid. I think it is because Germans are on average a bit afraid of things not going to plan. So they built in large gaps to make sure the DTM goes according to plan.
If you can find a spot near a tv-screen there is a plus side. At least at Zandvoort they had 'Dtm-tv' on before the race, inwich they reviewed the season so far. That really brings you up to date. It was pretty good, athough it helped that the race before the Zandvoort race was the good one at the Norisring.

And wow, 93 laps! That is a lot.

[Elio]

FFord is not a problem. Not sure what the continental FF series are like these days but the British Championship is absolutely buzzing at the moment, and the competitiveness of those races should be the highlight. The "old car serie" is not exactly an old car series, (though I dare say some are getting on a bit!!! ) and will provide some good, varied, club racing tin-top action.

The gaps are the biggest problem. I dare say there won`t be much in the way of distractions either - air display? red devils? (parachuting not my thing, but anything to break it up a bit), few parade cars or something?? I bet the commentators are worrying more than us however!!

Still, we can all go for a wander around the Paddock I guess..... Ah, I forgot, they want another £12 for that because thats the way the Germans do things apparently..... Oh well, there`s nowt much in there anyway cos of the poor support!!

[brands hatch]

Originally Posted by Elio

Still, we can all go for a wander around the Paddock I guess..... Ah, I forgot, they want another £12 for that because thats the way the Germans do things apparently..... Oh well, there`s nowt much in there anyway cos of the poor support!!

I believe the £12 is entry to the GP Paddock and Pit walk...so hopefully the outer paddock will be free...although i agree there will be very little in there! (http://www.msvracing.co.uk/media/766...0issue%201.pdf)

[Elio]

I am informed that the charge is also to the outer paddock - as in previous years. I agree that the MSV website does not make this clear, but if you read the blurb about Lewis and his Sunday "interview" then it states that to hear/see it you would need to purchase a Paddock pass.

(bottom bit)

http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/br...sp?NewsID=4965

[redshoes]

I seem to recall in previous years it was £12 to get into the outer paddock as well.

[brands hatch]

Originally Posted by Elio

I am informed that the charge is also to the outer paddock - as in previous years. I agree that the MSV website does not make this clear, but if you read the blurb about Lewis and his Sunday "interview" then it states that to hear/see it you would need to purchase a Paddock pass.

(bottom bit)

http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/br...sp?NewsID=4965

Damn...thats a shame...i guess i will find out when i try and get in on friday morning! can i purchase one at the megastore/main entrance on friday for the same price as online?

[Elio]

I e-mailed the circuit about that very thing, and got a reply saying they would be for sale from the Megastore for £12 on Fri/Sat/Sun.

[brands hatch]

Originally Posted by Elio

I e-mailed the circuit about that very thing, and got a reply saying they would be for sale from the Megastore for £12 on Fri/Sat/Sun.

Ok thanks...i will more than likely buy one!

[helgi]

It's not my habit to kid at a serious forum.
Some best European pilots (Kristensen, Paffett, Ekstrom, Jarvis) race cars that are built on common technical regulations (one of the last championships where you can not beg easing for you uncompetative cars). So,it's real sport. Even ballast system is not so stupid as in some other champs.

Overtaking is secondary. Pilots get their grid positions according to their speed on that track. So, the fastest cars should be in front, and theoreticaly there should be no overtaking at all.
Lots of overtaking must be in non-professional racing,where pilots are to weak to concentrate on driving and make mistakes even in 20-minutes races. Or teams are so non-professional that they can not prepare cars properly. Theoreticaly, the higher (mechanicaly, pilots' class) level of racing provide less overtaking.

As for 15-30£ for tickets that you don't want to waste - I must say you have to much racing there and eat plenty of it. If you are looking only for overtaking in racing - my regrets.

[Last2LiftOff]

Knockhill BTCC was an absolute barnburner. If you can get the ITV Player to work, I think the replays are on there for another 10 days or so.

Paffett's had a couple of trump-like performances this year, and Jarvis? hugely impressive wouldn't be too strong, he's a quick start young Jarvis is. Jamie Green's win at the Norisring this year in a year old car, no cheering for Jamie on the day really, but that finish was a hoot.

But memory serves, and this race last year was quite processional. Howbeit the Brits in the lineup are looking forward to it, to a man I'm sure...calling it their home race.

Originally Posted by Katherine Legge

I’m very excited already, after all, this is my home race. I will meet my family and friends there, who will be watching me. I know the circuit pretty well, and I also like it a lot. It’s a great venue for the fans as well because they have a full overview of the whole circuit. That’s an incredible atmosphere.

Oh dear.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by helgi

Lots of overtaking must be in non-professional racing,where pilots are to weak to concentrate on driving and make mistakes even in 20-minutes races. Or teams are so non-professional that they can not prepare cars properly. Theoreticaly, the higher (mechanicaly, pilots' class) level of racing provide less overtaking.

Or, overtaking happens when you have a very close grid of drivers, so they are all very close on track, so one little mistake (which everyone makes, professional or not) means you loose enough time for the driver behind to challenge you.

Or, when you have different cars, certain cars will be better at certain points on the track/times in the race, meaning you can close up and pass.

With DTM on the Brands Indy layout, there is nowhere to pass given all the cars are nigh-on the same.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by helgi

Some best European pilots (Kristensen, Paffett, Ekstrom, Jarvis) race cars that are built on common technical regulations (one of the last championships where you can not beg easing for you uncompetative cars). So,it's real sport.

Regardless of the technical regs and how good the cars and drivers are, the DTM still promotes itself as fan-friendly entertainment. Judging by the timetable at Brands I don't think they live up to that billing.

Overtaking is secondary. Pilots get their grid positions according to their speed on that track. So, the fastest cars should be in front, and theoreticaly there should be no overtaking at all.
...
If you are looking only for overtaking in racing - my regrets.

I thought the whole point of racing was to try to overtake the car in front. Are you saying that idea race for you would be one where the entire field goes nose to tail for umpteen laps and everyone finishes in the same order that they started? If that's the case then why bother with the race at all, just declare the result after qualifying.