[BTCC] Races 25, 26 & 27 - Rockingham, Northamptionshire, 20th September 2009

[tator2001uk]

what a third race :-)
Well done Herbert showing he can mix it!!!

I think in fairness to PLato once he tapped Turkington he tried to spin him back into the race it was unfortunate for him and turkington that nash clipped them, great drive by turkington, using his head but also his heart to race

Hope Gio gets some kind of endorsement for the obvious removal of mr Jackson
pity his run of podiums came to an end

Overall dull track to watch on tv but great 3rd race!!!

[marcosgt]

Well, my sympathies were with Turkington anyway, but after seeing the Vauxhall team CHEER his spin in race 2, I was off my sofa cheering him on to extend his lead over Giovanadi.

Of course everyone wants to win, but cheering a competitor spinning out (through no real fault of his own) seemed against the spirit of the competition.

I really hope Turkington lifts the crown at Brands now.

[PDS]

Originally Posted by andy_b

I wouldnt give too much significance to Bodywork (Solihull) on the car, my artwork is based on a rough photoshop, so its quite likely this won't appear on the final car.

Right andy... not on the race car...

Nobody spotted Belly wasn't racing?

[mattt]

That 3rd race was crazy

Chiltons celebration after the 3rd race was so funny.

Btw, Gordon Sheddons car was being run out of a GR Asia WTCC truck.

[Spaced Invader]

Originally Posted by emicen

...I find it really tiresome listening to Harvey perpetually trying to justify some of the antics on track....

spot on. especially when it comes to defending the 'old guards' antics.

[Alfa Fan]

Originally Posted by PDS

Right andy... not on the race car...

Nobody spotted Belly wasn't racing?

There was something on BTCC Net about him being out for personal reasons.

[gomick]

Great round win for Stephen Jelley

Was the race 2 win Jason Plato's 50th career win

[JamesRamone]

Originally Posted by medius

How many people saw Jason turn around Colin and think ''typical Plato move...''?

Both Turkington, Gio and Matt Jackson have proved over the season that you can be hard, yet completely fair. Pity Plato doesn't conform to that...and his quote about being employable for next season is quite apt.

I totally agree with the comments regarding Plato. However Gio isn't always faultless. His punt at Jackson at the first corner was bad, however i would suggest it was more a simple mistake than anything malicious.

[crmalcolm]

Is Giovanardi letting the pressure get to him?
He's received a penalty for his manoeuvre on Jackson, and has now complained about Herbert's involvement in R3.

[steve_r]

That's rich. Complaining about Herberts driving, in the same race that he himself received a license endoursement for annhiliating another car. Gimme a break.

[touringlegend]

Just got round to watching the races today and I had to laugh when Steve Neal said Matt was in the "A class" of drivers, of which according to him there are 4 - no mention of Turkington at all! OK Matt had some bad luck this weekend but it looks like he's given up almost as there's no contracts to negotiate with Vauxhall.

I think Herbert was just showing what others can expect. Give the others an inch they'll take a mile. Learning touring car racing quickly!

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Just got round to watching the races today and I had to laugh when Steve Neal said Matt was in the "A class" of drivers, of which according to him there are 4 - no mention of Turkington at all! OK Matt had some bad luck this weekend but it looks like he's given up almost as there's no contracts to negotiate with Vauxhall.

Same thinking occured to me as well, to suggest Matt Neal is a "catogery A" driver and as good as Thompson is just stupid, I rate Neal as a "B" overall and an "F" for his ability over the second half of this year.

With Dynamics resting on its laurels still at being 05/06 champions the team has gone backwards ever since, Steve Neal realising (at last) he needed a catogery "A" driver put Thomspon in and once again Dynamics made progress and ran near the front..all good news.

To now suggest on taking a driver who has not performed well this year against a catogery "A" driver in Giovanardi it seems odd that Dynamics dont go for the later driver frrom VXR.

The problem is Matt Neal knows he can drive as bad as he likes with another team but still have a place at Dynamics, also taking into account Steve Neals idea at putting Herbert and his son together rules out Pinkney so where is the funding going to come from and how does Dave feel at not being mentioned for next year unless he has already told them he's not coming back.

I was an avid supporter of Dynamics but the best thing they can do is drop the notion that Matt Neal is catogery "A" and find one that actually is, the teams mid pack now and before long will be at the back and out, take Thompsons perfromances out of the equation and they have been the worst performing team this year IMO.

[Jon411]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Just got round to watching the races today and I had to laugh when Steve Neal said Matt was in the "A class" of drivers, of which according to him there are 4 - no mention of Turkington at all! OK Matt had some bad luck this weekend but it looks like he's given up almost as there's no contracts to negotiate with Vauxhall.

I think Herbert was just showing what others can expect. Give the others an inch they'll take a mile. Learning touring car racing quickly!

I think in Steve Neal's world its still 2006 and Dynamics are the top Independents and WSR are still using the old MGs

The only thing Matt Neal has been "A class" at this year is throwing his championship away really, he's had a shocker since the mid-season break.

I personally think Herbert is all part of the plan for him to get sponsors on board and then discard the driver later on - like he did with Eaves, and when he dropped Shedden for Thompson, as Thompson didn't bring any visible sponsors with him

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by Jon411

I think in Steve Neal's world its still 2006 and Dynamics are the top Independents and WSR are still using the old MGs

The only thing Matt Neal has been "A class" at this year is throwing his championship away really, he's had a shocker since the mid-season break.

I personally think Herbert is all part of the plan for him to get sponsors on board and then discard the driver later on - like he did with Eaves, and when he dropped Shedden for Thompson, as Thompson didn't bring any visible sponsors with him

Thompson didn't bring sponsers or money and was initally asked to pay for the driver which he declined quite rightly so, in the end he got the drive and paid nothing for it, what he gave the team was focus and results something expected of a catogery "A" driver, as said Matt Neal is not in the league of Thompson.Giovonardi,Plato or Turkington to name a few, its the next divison "B" driver you should find him.

[redshoes]

When Steve Neal was being interviewed and asked about the repairs to Herbert's car I was expecting him to launch into his usual rant about the idiot driver who caused all the damage... then I remembered who the other driver was

BTW what actually happened to Neal in race, the TV footage just showed him charging into shot on the grass but not how he got there in the first place. Did he get pushed onto the grass or did his brakes fail?


Herbert got a touch of 'red mist'. Looks like he got fed up being pushed around and this time wasn't going to take NO for an answer. Fair play to him.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

With Dynamics resting on its laurels still at being 05/06 champions the team has gone backwards ever since, Steve Neal realising (at last) he needed a catogery "A" driver put Thomspon in and once again Dynamics made progress and ran near the front..all good news.

I don't think they're resting on their laurels, they simply don't have that advantage anymore: the Integra which was a perfect car. Perfect aero, perfect engine, perfect strength. The Civic just can't match up to it. Makes you wonder how much the 05 and 06 titles were down to the car and not the driver eh?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

as said Matt Neal is not in the league of Thompson.Giovonardi,Plato or Turkington to name a few, its the next divison "B" driver you should find him.

Do Turkington and Plato rate as 'A' alongside Giovanardi and Thompson?

A number of drivers (the 'B' level if you wish) have proven that they can pedal a car quickly. In this category, IMHO, can be listed Turkington, Plato, Jackson, Neal and many other drivers.

What sets Giovanardi and Thompson apart, to my mind, is that not only have they proven themselves in multiple cars/series but that they have also taken an under-performing car and driven forward the development to produce a title-winner.

It remains to be seen whether Jackson and Turkington can make the step up, although I feel that Turkington is very close to being considered an 'A' driver.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Perhaps it's because that there seems to have been so many "TV" safety car periods that when one is genuinely needed (ie for an incident more serious than someone in the crowd dropping a crisp packet that may or may not then blow onto the circuit) it seems tiresome.

You seem to be confusing BTCC and NASCAR.
There aren't "TV Safety Cars" in any form of UK motorsport. The insinuation that safety cars are deployed for commercial rather than safety reasons is an insult to the marshals and other volunteers who give up their time to ensure motorsport happens.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I know I'm going to get shot down in flames for this because these guys are the "spirit of the championship", but I'm tired of knackered old Hondas going off and causing Safety Car periods, ruining battles for the competitive cars up front.

As opposed to former champions in knackered new Vauxhalls punting off Hondas and causing safety car periods?

[crmalcolm]

So was Neal guilty of causing the incident that led to a safety car?

[gregc]

And further to redshoes post, what about the knackered old Honda in the hands of a talented driver taking the fight to the front runners? OK his tyres were finished a couple of laps from the end, but I don't think O'Neill gets enough credit for what he's doing with that car. He's a driver I'd put very close to the "A" class (and by the way, I'd definitely have Turkington in there).

And for me, Johnny Herbert got his real touring car licence this weekend. Pretty strong in race 3, seems like he's got the hang of fwd and a bit of robust racing to boot. Good stuff

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So was Neal guilty of causing the incident that led to a safety car?

I don't know, but I've yet to see an explanation for why he was doing an an impression of an exocet missile going into the hairpin on lap one.

My point was that Craner was having a not so thinly veiled pop at the likes of John George and Matt Hamilton for bringing out the safety car but nothing is said when it's one of the front-runners who does the same.

[crmalcolm]

For my mind, I'm still undecided on O'Neill's true level of ability.
Admittedly he is outperforming anyone at present in the same machinery, but Mike Jordan and subsequenly Andy were also putting in similar results in the Integra.
I feel that O'Neill may be a very, very good driver. I'd like to see him pedalling another car before I make my final decision though.

Herbert definitely looks like he's learning FWD TC driving quickly, which either underlines his class as an ex-F1 driver or highlights the weakness of others around him?

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by sceptic

You seem to be confusing BTCC and NASCAR.
There aren't "TV Safety Cars" in any form of UK motorsport. The insinuation that safety cars are deployed for commercial rather than safety reasons is an insult to the marshals and other volunteers who give up their time to ensure motorsport happens.

Thankyou. I'm a marshal and believe me, we would much rather keep the racing flowing than have safety cars. But would people complaining about the SCs be prepared to work on a live circuit with the likes of Neal & Plato hurtling round?

[Winchester]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

For my mind, I'm still undecided on O'Neill's true level of ability.
Admittedly he is outperforming anyone at present in the same machinery, but Mike Jordan and subsequenly Andy were also putting in similar results in the Integra.
I feel that O'Neill may be a very, very good driver. I'd like to see him pedalling another car before I make my final decision though.

I'd argue O'Neill is faster in that car than Mike or Andrew Jordan ever were. Mike was great and had his moments, but Paul has raced at the front on outright pace loads of times this season in a car that's getting ever older.
Mike and Andrew were often stronger in the reverse grid races.