Do I really need a new fire extinguisher?

[dtype38]

Spoke to the supplier of my fire extinguisher system yesterday about getting a service on it and a new date sticker. They asked when I bought it, which was 1999. They then said it couldn't be serviced because for health and safety reasons they have a life of 10 years and after that I need to buy a new one.

Is this:
a) a sensible precaution and I should just do it.
b) health and safety gone mad and I should get it serviced elsewhere.
c) a little trick to sell more fire extinguishers.

To be fair they did offer me a 25% discount on a new one as a valued customer.

[midgetman]

Strewth, buying one fire extinguisher every 12 years makes you a good customer....hate to see a bad one!

[Stephen Green]

If your car ever catches fire you will want it to work so getting a new one seems the sensible solution to me.

[DAVID PATERSON]

In Australia, CAMS our MSN, forces us to buy a new fire extinguisher every 3 years!!! In factories, offices and warehouses they have to be replaced every 6 years.

[Chris Y]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

If your car ever catches fire you will want it to work so getting a new one seems the sensible solution to me.

Buy a new one for each race then!

Sorry Stephen, but how far do you take it? There are fire extinguishers older than 10 years in office buildings, regularly serviced, and they work perfectly well when required.

There's anecdotal evidence to suggest most AFFF extinguishers in club-level race cars wouldn't put out a lit match anyway. Park it next to a marshals post

[Stephen Green]

Now that is a good idea Chris

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Spoke to the supplier of my fire extinguisher system yesterday about getting a service on it and a new date sticker. They asked when I bought it, which was 1999. They then said it couldn't be serviced because for health and safety reasons they have a life of 10 years and after that I need to buy a new one.

Is this:
a) a sensible precaution and I should just do it.
b) health and safety gone mad and I should get it serviced elsewhere.
c) a little trick to sell more fire extinguishers.

To be fair they did offer me a 25% discount on a new one as a valued customer.

a) I have heard stories that the extinguishant is corrosive.
b) Maybe but you could try Graham at Lanan Racing who service mine, he's a very helpful chap.
c) See a above.

25% off sounds good but 25% off what price? If you do buy a new one make sure it's a 4lt one as it'll make life easier if you get European travel concessions from SWMBO.

[dtype38]

Yeh, tis a 4ltr mechanical one so a replacement is in the region of £225 +vat. Fortunately they haven't changed the dimensions much so it'll fit directly in my current installation.

I suppose with discount, if I get another 10 years use (if I last that long!) then it works out not much more than £20 a season.

OK, thanks for the advice. The balance is for replacement and I guess that's what I wanted to do anyway, just needed some reassurance that I wasn't being sold a line.

[JohnD]

A Google for "Servicing fire extinguisher" gets a first page with six companies in the UK that do this. Most of their business will be for commercial premises, but surely the technology is common?
One is Lifeline, that is in motorsport, but they may be the company that sold you this line.
John

[dtype38]

Some good news actually..... rang up to order the new extinguisher and was told I only need the bottle which, with the discount, came in at just over £130 inc vat and p+p. The price I had been looking at was for a complete system. So a lot less than I thought. And yes John, it was Lifeline.

[midgetman]

If you *are* buying with Europe in mind, remember FIA spec requires 4 nozzles, UK only 2.

[dtype38]

Ohh..... I've only got 3! But then mine is an open car which I didn't think needed a cockpit nozzle at all. I've got two in the engine bay covering both sides of the engine and the firewall, and one in the driver footwell. Where would I put a fourth?

[RPD Motorsport]

Plenty of places will fill it no problems. Our team can inspect and fill for £35. But racing bottles are required to be <10 years old, and stamped as such. So even if we filled and inspected it next week you still could not use it anyway. There are no such rules in 'general' H&S for offices etc.

This is mainly because most office bottles sit still until they are used. We give them a horrific enviroment with masses of vibration and often chemicals, things leaning/crushing them slightly etc...

Aluminium if one of the worst materials about for fatuige life, so a small defect, or continuing vibrations can cause a bottle to fail without warning. Again, most motorsport bottles are aluminium.

I have seen a huge number of lifeline, SPA and Willans bottles that show up micro holes and cracks when over-pressurised to about 12 bar.

So in my opnion they are being sensable, and obaying the MSA rules.

Just one of those unavoidable costs of racing I think!

[midgetman]

Interesting post, thank you.

[SFurness]

Hi,

I'm not arguing for having old, unserviced units but where does it say in the Blue Book an extinguisher has to be less than ten years old or even needs servicing.

Steve

[RPD Motorsport]

Point 3.2 on page 168 of the 2010 Blue book (need to check for 2011 copy) states that all plumbed in systems (as zero 2000 is a type of AFFF) must me FIA/MSA homologated.

Futher requirements of this homologation are periodic testing every 2 or 4 years, depending on the type of bottle. It also limits last use to not more than 10 years from the date of manufacture. (note, not first use!)

Unfortunately this is not stated in full, but homologation details are avalible from the MSA on request.

The down side of this is some club competiters can be a bit stuck when pulled up in parc ferme as they have no idea that testing is required!

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by RPD Motorsport

Point 3.2 on page 168 of the 2010 Blue book (need to check for 2011 copy) states that all plumbed in systems (as zero 2000 is a type of AFFF) must me FIA/MSA homologated.

Futher requirements of this homologation are periodic testing every 2 or 4 years, depending on the type of bottle. It also limits last use to not more than 10 years from the date of manufacture. (note, not first use!)

Unfortunately this is not stated in full, but homologation details are avalible from the MSA on request.

The down side of this is some club competiters can be a bit stuck when pulled up in parc ferme as they have no idea that testing is required!

The dates you call out are taken from the FIA regs, as you only have to have an MSA approved fire system you dont have to have it serviced or change it after 10 years (although this would be recomended). You will find a lot of fire bottles that are used in club racing manufactured by the likes of lifeline SPA etc are MSA approved but not FIA.

[DaveGT6]

Originally Posted by midgetman

If you *are* buying with Europe in mind, remember FIA spec requires 4 nozzles, UK only 2.

Where did that rule come from? I've checked FIA APP J and APP K and can't find anthing relating to the number of nozzles just that it needs to discharge in the engine bay and the passenger compartment.

Happy to change my installation but want to be certain it is necessary first.

[midgetman]

Dunno, just when I bought my FIA set up I was told I had to have 4 nozzles....so maybe Chinese whispers!

[SFurness]

The Blue Book states

3.1.2.

(a) Medium, Plumbed-In, for discharge into both
cockpit and engine compartment.
(b) Medium, Hand-Operated, for discharge into both
cockpit and engine compartment.

3.1.3.

Large, Plumbed-In, for discharge into both

cockpit and engine compartment.

So for MSA events it has to be at least two nozzles. Nothing about age or testing though.

Steve

[big andy]

out of interest as anybody ever pulled or knows any body that as pulled the cable in a live threatening situation ??

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by big andy

out of interest as anybody ever pulled or knows any body that as pulled the cable in a live threatening situation ??

I cant say I have seen one pulled in a life threatening situation but I have seen many pulled by drivers who have a fire and cant say I have ever seen one put a fire out. I havent pulled one in the years I have been marshalling as we normally turn up with a few powder and foam bottles which can be directed more acuratly at the seat of the fire and the powder is much more effective than an onboard AFFF.

[GORDON STREETER]

Yes I did when I started the car (luckily) outside of the workshop.
A fuel union was loose and a serious fire started. The plumbed in AFFF system worked OK but as far as extinguishing anything I might just as well have peed on it.
A quick thinking guy in the next workshop saved the day with one of their powdered ones, and after a steam clean off and a repaired and painted bonnet it was up and running the next day. All is forgiven Halon !!!!

[midgetman]

I think the most it can do is give you time to get out and hope the marshals get there in time. When you see the great big bottles they carry to put the flames out, there's no way a tiny 4 litre one can do that...it's all about life saving not car saving.

[Dan Friel]

There's been a a few incidents over the last couple of years where over 10 full sized bottles have been used to put out fires. I think in one of those 16 bottles were used. Also helps to explain why circuits have fire cars. It's all about control until the proper equipment can arrive (car extinguisher, then marshals, then fire car).