F1 V's LMP

[Aysedasi]

Has this thread already won the 2015 award for predictability....... ?

[GT6]

yes

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by tux

Apples and Oranges isn't it?

"Quite agree...very often people compare serie, drivers, even cars. From early on, I realised there's really no point...

I guess to some it's fun tho'...

I love racin', so I just enjoy em all.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Has this thread already won the 2015 award for predictability....... ?

I'm going to play the predictable,

"yeah, but if you want to watch real racing you need to watch club racing. There is more overtaking there than in anything else ever. Ner ner na ner ner".

[Aysedasi]

I guess that was the only comment that was missing Adam.......

[Knowlesy]

You want to get yourself to a kart race. That's where the real racing is.

...

What's that? The drivers ages are in single figures? Disgusting. They should be down coal mines.

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

You want to get yourself to a kart race. That's where the real racing is.

...

What's that? The drivers ages are in single figures? Disgusting. They should be d̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶c̶o̶a̶l̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶e̶s̶ in Formula 1.

Isn't that what you meant

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I'm going to play the predictable,

"yeah, but if you want to watch real racing you need to watch club racing. There is more overtaking there than in anything else ever. Ner ner na ner ner".

The sad truth is the quality of the racing is inversely proportional to the size of the budgets.

[Adam43]

Ner.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

Isn't that what you meant

Funny you should say that...

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by miatanut

The sad truth is the quality of the racing is inversely proportional to the size of the budgets.

Sad possibly. The truth? - far from always......

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Sad possibly. The truth? - far from always......

I'm game. Give me some exceptions!

Best racing in the planet is FF & Spec Miata. GT's still good. Moving up to the protos, OK but no great shakes. On the open wheel side, it's a similar deal. The higher classes just don't provide the action of the lower ones, until you get to F1, where they have to invent gimmicks just to get some passing.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Best racing in the planet is FF & Spec Miata.

That depends on whether you define 'racing' as on track wheel to wheel action or prefer something more subtle but much more involving overall.

[wewantourdarbyback]

I dunno, I watched some blokes in 200 quid bangers race to support the British GTs at Oulton Park last year and there's wasn't a lot of action to be seen compared to the several hundred thousand pound big boys.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

For me personally, I like F1, but I love sports cars.

I can see how someone from one camp can argue until they are blue in the face with someone from the other camp about which is better. I have a hard time believing that F1 is further up the technological ladder at the moment, but I can see where someone from the other side could argue that point.

However, there is one word in particular that comes to mind that at the moment I believe cannot be argued, and that word is relevance . While I will admit there are not a ton of things that float down to a street car from a modern day LMP1, I doubt that there are really any on current F1 cars. At least we've seen better headlight technology and greater variations of hybrid and energy recovery systems from LMP1 that have already made their way to road cars.

Take tires for one example, at least there are lessons that can be made from LMP1 tires and applied towards road tires. Those tiny little things in F1 have virtually no relevance and make me believe that Pirelli is not learning anything for their consumer tires.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

...At least we've seen better headlight technology...

Bro, do you even meth? You have F1 to thank for that.

I can't give an expert opinion on the debate, though I will say as an outsider it does feel like a manufacturer will grow a fanbase (translation: more sales) better in F1. Want to appeal to the average car joe and sell cars? Do well in F1. Want to improve your road product and compete in the market place that way? Sports cars.

F1 feels a little like college football. You go off heritage, you give out $ for people to come to your college and play for you, you practice, play against people just as honed as you, and at the end of the day you're really looking for loyalty, because that's how you get the average communications major to apply. How does it help & advance society? Well...

[Adam43]

For me I have no desire to see F1 being relevant to road cars! Why should it be, it is racing.
However it is relevant in working practices, the attention to detail and methodology is of the top draw and has relevance in all engineering not just road cars.

Not massively fussed for Le Mans either, but it is part of the history and that link is a good technical exercise. The relevance is over played too in Sportscar, especially in GT racing, I believe.

On the spec. series comment for F1, well I always think that is a funny put down. Sportscar racing has BoP which for me is just the other side of the same artificial coin.
However I'm over both, as both manage to still demonstrate excellence in their own way.

What I do see in common with both series is a level of blind hypocrisy when slagging off the other series.

So in that vain, I would like to say they are both rubbish when compared to 'bike racing. Get over it.

[Maelochs]

Adam43 nailed it. Bicycle racing is where its at.

[Adam43]

I went to Le Tour and Le Mans last year

When watching Le Tour no one seemed interested in the racing they were all just saying how brilliant they were for watching this rather than going to a Velodrome which was no where near as good.

[Maelochs]

For sure, In a velodrome you have racers going around and interrupting your picnic, while with the Tour the cyclists only disturb you for about 45 seconds and then leaver you in peace.

???

People are funny, even silly ... so long as they keep buying enough tickets that racing can survive, I will tolerate people.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Mal

That depends on whether you define 'racing' as on track wheel to wheel action or prefer something more subtle but much more involving overall.

I want two things.

First, I want great on-track action, with multiple leaders over the course of the races due to passes occurring on the track because the cars have different strengths & weaknesses.

Second, I want technical development.

Traditionally the lower classes were the best at the former, the top classes had the latter. In this spec era with the rules controlling all sorts of niggling little details of the cars, there is little to no space for the designers to play, so we don't get much technical development at the top levels. The lower levels continue to excel at on-track action.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by miatanut

I want two things.

First, I want great on-track action, with multiple leaders over the course of the races due to passes occurring on the track because the cars have different strengths & weaknesses.

Second, I want technical development.

Traditionally the lower classes were the best at the former, the top classes had the latter. In this spec era with the rules controlling all sorts of niggling little details of the cars, there is little to no space for the designers to play, so we don't get much technical development at the top levels. The lower levels continue to excel at on-track action.

I would agree both those points and also I really like seeing different classes on track which creates constantly varying situations........ which is why I am a fan of LeMans style sportscar racing.

[GT6]

I totally support the multi class racing especially in the long races. With battles in each class and plenty of possibilities of slower cars effecting the gaps between leaders the skills of drivers and cars are tested to the full and the fans always have something to follow rather than just a procession of cars going past

[Mal]

Originally Posted by GT6

I totally support the multi class racing especially in the long races. With battles in each class and plenty of possibilities of slower cars effecting the gaps between leaders the skills of drivers and cars are tested to the full and the fans always have something to follow rather than just a procession of cars going past

Agreed and it means even when the race at the front is not so heated there is always good racing and overtaking to watch.

[GT6]

That is why we love the 24 hours of Le Mans