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Old 26 Jul 2017, 13:25 (Ref:3754481)   #16
zefarelly
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
A log book is a good idea, some people keep them anyway. It would also serve a purpose should a car change hands . . . . ie a reliable race finisher . . . or not, an idiotic owner . . .or not. . . . nut behind the wheel a bit loose?

First hand experience of wheels falling off . . . . . Goodwood Fordwater trophy in the Tornado. I never got the opportunity to apologise to 'rock royalty offspring' for what must have been a bit scary (AC up my chuff would have been extremely close to the loose wheel doing 80mph) I spread the word that rear drive shafts are unfit for purpose. exactly the same thing happened to another Tornado 5 months later on the very same corner. Avoidable, but a deaf (ex) owner.

In our hands at least, this issue is well documented and has now been resolved. No performance gain, just a safer more reliable car which is now finishing races.

A simple finish/DNF record, and cause for DNF and 'accident' tick box would speak volumes.

It would also open another can of worms . . . unless administered by say a CoC ( signed and approved statement by owner maybe ? I nthe case of an accident

Then you get onto things like Cortina-Renault incident at Goodwood . . . . I know what happened, the punters read what gets put in the GRRC story book and all the other tales in between.

Last edited by John Turner; 29 Jul 2017 at 08:59. Reason: See Joe's post below - JT
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Old 26 Jul 2017, 20:13 (Ref:3754558)   #17
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield View Post
The concept, Max, would be at the next race the scrutineers, when handed the logbook would ask to see the receipt for the replacement hub, would ask to see what steps had been taken - modified hub, better material, different supplier, different installation procedures possibly - and that would be recorded on the logbook. As there are no wasteful queues and waiting the scrutineers would have the time to be proactive like this. Also at the same time, as I mentioned, all the other owners of cars with similar components could be updated and informed as to likely problems. If we really value safety rather than just ticking health and safety boxes then surely this is a worthwhile train of thought?
A logbook would also (although obviously not recording testing etc) give a much better idea of seat, seatbelt and bagtank usage - then we would have real time information as to when things wear out, we would not have to be under some lowest common denominator blanket constriction as we are now.
Further, if someone is found to be "pushing the envelope" of technical development then other similar cars can be informed (and checked) and the spread of regulatory inconsistencies can be stopped far quicker.

But then some ten years ago on this very forum I said that the "arms race" in Historic racing was out of control and needed better control.....how very right I was....
So what has improved in that time Simon?
That was around the same time it was suggested to me to "Forget Historics Terry,their fxxxxd"The reason behind that suggestion was because the "data base"that was supposedly being created to keep track on the cars and or new owners had little or effect on the amount of non conforming modifications then,probably zero effect these days.
So a log book will stop what and how will it do it?Desparate owners will always find away around thesr things-they always have.
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Old 26 Jul 2017, 22:34 (Ref:3754581)   #18
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Thank you for explaining your idea in detail Simon that makes a great deal of sense. Although implementation would still require man power that isn't available. And in your example "wheel fell off" could be hub damage, wheel damage, fat finger syndrome or many other things so how do you prove the problem has been addressed?

Grant I think actually the opposite will happen - ICE motorsport in its widest sense will grow as EV make their mark. It will be the only place one can drive fast and free from speed regulation. The lack of effort from the powers-that-be stems more from their inertia and lack of understanding of real world problems than any "it'll all be dead soon" thoughts.

To my mind the MSA hasn't progressed from the 1920s, but that's another discussion!

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Max,

Much easier for the authorities to eliminate the fuel supply thus making the sport more difficult for ordinary mortals to be involved.

Historic racing might thrive, but I would suggest it will be much easier and cheaper out side the UK and possibly Europe for those who have enough money to travel and drive.

Circuits, Silverstone for example, are likely to go the way of the Lausitzring to be used by manufacturers of electric vehicles as test centres.

Obviously that is entirely speculation - but it's either that or they are converted to Mars colony support establishments as Space-X rocket systems training sites.

Thinking about it Silverstone is probably well suited to such a role in a number of ways!

We live in strange times.
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Old 26 Jul 2017, 23:00 (Ref:3754583)   #19
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After seeing the chap stuff his B8 into paddock hill tyre wall the other week, it does remind you that these are old cars and if something goes wrong, for whatever reason, it can be very serious. I would think you would have to be very stupid to take a slack attitude to your own and others safety.

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Old 27 Jul 2017, 08:58 (Ref:3754628)   #20
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I meant to say is a good idea / not a bad idea!

another issue is the ever continuing pace of development which is clearly out performing the capabilities of most cars and many drivers!

Joe, thought you did - I'll amend it - JT

Last edited by John Turner; 29 Jul 2017 at 08:58.
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Old 30 Jul 2017, 06:25 (Ref:3755804)   #21
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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I meant to say is a good idea / not a bad idea!

another issue is the ever continuing pace of development which is clearly out performing the capabilities of most cars and many drivers!

Joe, thought you did - I'll amend it - JT
Yeaaaa so did i .
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 12:16 (Ref:3756395)   #22
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I believe this is a sensible idea which could be made to work, and if it prevented just one incident, as referred to, then money time and potential injury would be saved.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 13:56 (Ref:3756411)   #23
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Surely the issue here is not just down to a car and the number of times it breaks (perhaps a scrutineering issue in terms of checking an enforcement since scrutineering seems to be the competent authority for cars) but also the driver and preparer.

Now I will also assume that all incidents are reported (certainly major incidents) to race control. And therefore are archived?

How difficult would it be to consolidate this information from the archives and set "watch" flags to establish a "need to monitor" focus on any of those parties?

Of course I can see some pitfalls with the approach but it's something that might not take much effort in reality and couls then be assessed for how much benefit may be derived.

In effect the existing reports to race control are likely to give a more comprehensive picture of events than a logbook - or so I would have thought.

Would I be wrong in that assumption?
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 14:10 (Ref:3756412)   #24
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Grant, the log book system is already being used perfectly well in other countries, so we don't need to 're-invent the wheel' (no pun intended), just adopt a proven system from elsewhere.......
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 17:58 (Ref:3756460)   #25
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Grant, the log book system is already being used perfectly well in other countries, so we don't need to 're-invent the wheel' (no pun intended), just adopt a proven system from elsewhere.......
Fine for the car mike - but does it cover the humans involved?

My point was, really, that there is probably enough information already collected to identify one or dodgy cars or miscreant individuals (if that's what they are) without giving everyone another admin tasks and document to remember.

More to the point it would likely be something that could be put to use now rather than waiting for history to build in a log book.

But I have no dog in the race so I'll leave it there.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 20:24 (Ref:3756513)   #26
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Or another thing to consider,how much will it cost?Seems like the HTP was just a money maker as it is no different to the original papers.Seems as though this new idea will go the same way.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 11:46 (Ref:3757332)   #27
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Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think Simon has a point

Currently scrutineering is cursory at best,
clothing is checked and belts,
cut off switch, rain light,
fire extinguisher,
a rattle on the wheels,
check for leaks,
return springs, more the number than safe operation

done

this is what can be done in the short space of time allotted to one car
so the queue gets done in reasonable time


on the other hand at Brands Hatch
we had 2 severe accidents due to sticking throttles
everybode saw the Chevron at Paddock Hill, most did not see the melee in the last URS race.

trottle action is apparantly a very important point to scrutineer

instead the hologram on the belts get checked and belts get switched so its on the proper side as per regulation, a big thing in early 2017
yes, its in the regulation, and yes scrutineers were trained to point this out
this wastes time for no safety gain whatsoever
and also undermines competitor confidence in the rulemakers and rule applicators as they seem to have a problem prioritising issues

RuE
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