Grp C/Grp A/V8SC 'Where are they now?' continued...

[Sultan]

What GTR said.....

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Henry

The original 318 SS (which I believe was originally run in Craven Mild colours by Oil Can Harry) was written off in 1983, in the prang casued by Brock's Bob Jane Monza breaking an axle off the line IIRC... the crash also involved the ex-Richards Falcon Sports Sedan.

Also IIRC (think I read it in Barry Naismuth's "Jim Richards" illustrated bio from 1985-ish) the replacement 320 featured an F2 donk.

...

I seem to remember the 3 series sports sedans kicking off in Grice's days with a 320 turbo sourced from the US.

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by cavvy

I seem to remember the 3 series sports sedans kicking off in Grice's days with a 320 turbo sourced from the US.

Spot on. Jim Busby raced a semi-factory BMW 320 Turbo in IMSA in 1979. He sold the two cars he used to Frank Gardner and at least one of them were used in Craven Mild livery by Gricey in the Sports Sedan championship. At least one of the cars made it back to the US and was restored to the spec. that Busby ran it in. That particular car was for sale as recently as six months ago.

[jd yort]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Hey guys going a bit off current topic. On Nicholson street Brunswick (Melbourne) there’s an automotive workshop between Blyth Street and Brunswick road. Sitting up on a hoist just inside is what looks to be an old Glen Seton EL Falcon, does anyone know anything about this car? I used to drive past it everyday about 18 months ago and when I last saw it was covered in a lot of dust. Is it still there and does it get used at all?

I think you are referring to Rod Smiths Falcon. Not sure how its spec varies compared to its V8 Supercar days but you can see it in this footage from the Phillip Island Magic meeting in Dec 06:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmi0xx5mIvs

[BILTEL]

Like to see some of these cars again.

[Robert Bailey]

what about the Jaguar XJS group A drivern/owned by Clinton?

[GTRMagic]

I presume This car is the Walden Motorsport car.....

I always liked the Finnigan VN in that aqua colour scheme

[Robert Bailey]

For a group A car to race in historics does it have to have Australian race history?

[mtpanorama]

I think if the car has a Group A logbook and proven history it should be ok.

[David Towe]

That's the way I understand it to be too.

[ASSA Member]

While it is off topic the whole JPS BMW Sport Sedan saga is confusing!
I've heard a few conflicting stories over the years, so far I have pieced this together:

- As far as I know Allan Grice originally ran a E21 3 series in white Craven Mild colours in 1980. This car was left hand drive and I have a pic of it where it has got closed mudguards. See a picture of it at this link:
http://www.autopics.com.au/cache/ite....html?cache=no

I seem to think that this car was imported from America, it is also interesting to note that the Busby car previously mentioned in this discussion has been for sale for a while in the USA.

- Now in 1981 he was driving a right hand drive car in JPS colours, see pic at this link:
http://www.autopics.com.au/cache/ite....html?cache=no

I am not sure where this car came from exactly, was it a new car built locally or was it imported from overseas? I seem to think that this was the car that Bruce Lynton later ran in 1982, John Briggs then ran it after him, see pic at this link: http://www.oldracephotos.com/orp.html

After Briggs it ended up with Richard Gartner towards the late 1980s, he pulled out the broken BMW engine and put in a 13B rotary engine built by Barry Jones. The car when I saw it many years ago at Amaroo had a Hewland DGB in it along with some trick magnesium uprights, Lockheed brakes and some huge centre lock Simmons wheels. He later crashed it at Oran Park and it never saw the track again.

- In 1982 Jim Richards ran the 318i turbo and placed third in the National GT Championship. This car was left hand drive, had open IMSA/ Group 5 style flares/mudguards with black paint & JPS signage. As has already been mentioned It was involved in that huge crash at AIR with the Chev Monza drive by Peter Brock. Was the car scrapped after this accident? I seem to recall Richards running with this car at Sandown when World Sports Cars raced there or was this another car altogether?

- Another name associated with these cars was Rob Burns in Victoria, I think he mainly raced in Victoria but he too ran a BMW Sport Sedan (which one I have no idea) with a turbocharged BMW engine and apparently sold it off back to America.

- Ludwig Finauer didn't race 318i Turbo Sport Sedan in competition as far as I know. He got to drive the BMW E21 320 that was fitted with a naturally aspirated BMW F2 engine and apparently a lot of ex BMW Junior team running gear. The car was built up in the JPS workshop and he raced it in local NSW Sport Sedan races. I have a feeling that this may be the same car that Chris Hones raced and set the 2 litre Sport Sedan lap records in at Amaroo and Oran Park in the 1980s. Apparently this car now resides in Europe ( I think it is in Sweden) and the current owner has been in touch with Ludwig too for some info on the car.

If anyone has any more info or stories I'd love to hear them!!!

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by ASSA Member

I seem to recall Richards running with this car at Sandown when World Sports Cars raced there or was this another car altogether?

- Another name associated with these cars was Rob Burns in Victoria, I think he mainly raced in Victoria but he too ran a BMW Sport Sedan (which one I have no idea) with a turbocharged BMW engine and apparently sold it off back to America.

I can't quite remember whether the JPS car at the '84 WEC round was the same car but, whichever car it was, I believe it went to Robin Doherty at some point. I'm pretty sure Rob Burns then bought that car when Doherty bought Tony Hubbard's ex-Richards Falcon.

EDIT: Also, the information about the original BMW 320 Turbo being sourced from Jim Busby was from a direct quote from Jim Busby himself in a American historic racing magazine article.

[David Towe]

Below is a copy of an email I received recently from Chris Hones re the JPS 320s, it's self explanatory.
Cheers
David

email,

Hi David,

We met at ECR 2 yrs ago when Pip introduced us.

Some of those ten-tenths guys are still confused about these cars so I thought you would provide this info and pic. (can't upload the pics but they show the car in white with motorsport stripes running the length of the car, David Towe)
The 320 2 litre was used for display only by JPS team until 1 only race in JPS colours, WSC 1984 Jim/Tony.

I prepared and raced it after that for Glenn Molloy until it was sold and dismantled. I first raced it in form you see in 3 of these pics (FIA GP5 Spec).

We ran the car in 1984 when I broke the Amaroo under 2 litre first time out.

It was changed to Aussi sports sedan specs (narrow 10" wheels) and painted light blue with some lighter Kevlar panels I made from orig moulds.

Although only 2 Litre and using old used tyres off Jim's 635, I always made the division one sports sedan final at Amaroo in the national televised events usually finishing in the top 10 against the likes of the Monzas,Tommos merc, the Jag etc. One pic shows a Young Brad Jones (with hair) getting into Tommo's Monza!

Frank asked if we would help him keep Ludwig interested in staying around ( I think he was thinking of going back home). We agreed to manage him through a process of 5 races to get a race licence and make a name for him in the car. (For Ludwig we imported sticky New Avons for almost every event!)

As agreed, Ludwig was entered (and dominated) in club races to get a licence and progress off his provisional "P" competition licence.

I resumed my driving of the car and continued to develop it in set-up and minor tweaks. The car was easily 3 sec quicker than any other 2 litre sports sedan at Amaroo so the challenge was to keep lowering the lap record which I did over a 5 year period.
Frank was delighted that it was never butchered and was one of the only cars he had ever sold which was developed to go faster. Usually, when a new buyer could not go as quick, the first thing they did was "Fix the car".
We stopped racing it around 1988/89 when the necessary mufflers to meet noise restrictions killed the horsepower. It made all its power between 7500 and 9500 rpm and was measured at 145dba. The car was sold to a Sydney collector then stripped for rebuild but was again sold, then in parts. I went Porsche racing

Molloy also had one of the turbo cars, the last one JPS ran which Jim drove, pic # iii. It is the one from the AIR accident rebuilt lighter and stiffer. You can see it actually had a type of ground effects from this rear shot. It was LHD with a Getrag Box. I drove it with a faulty boost Gauge which meant we were unknowingly running 36 pounds, enough power to spin the 19" x 16"wide soft Dunlops the entire length of O.Park 9500 RPM in 5th which the gearchart said was 175 MPH. We did some demo laps for sponsors etc 45sec lap from standing start.

We sold the car to Rob Doherty, he sold it to Rob Burns who sold it to USA. Last I heard it was running in Historic IMSA.

The other turbo, which Grice drove, was spaceframe with a Hewland Transaxle. Last I saw it was running a Mazda rotary a few years back.

[ASSA Member]

Thanks for that David, looks like the mystery has been solved!

So basically we have:
- Jim Richards raced the floor pan LHD turbo car, had the big crash at AIR, it was then owned and rebuilt by Glenn Molloy, then sold to Doherty, sold on to Burns who sold it back to the USA

- Tube frame turbo car that Grice ran, then Lynton, then Briggs who sold it to Gartner who fitted a rotary engine, raced it, crashed it and then the car was never seen on the track again.

- Naturally aspirated F2 powered floor pan car, originally a show car raced once by Jim Richards and Tony Longhurst at Sandown in the WSC in 1984. Chris Hones raced it, Ludwig Finauer then raced it for a few club race meetings, Chris Hones then kept racing it, it was then sold to Rob Sheil who sold it again and now this car is in Europe.

I still have a few questions though:
1.What became of the left hand drive Craven Mild car that Grice originally ran in 1980? Did this become the black car Jim Richards raced?

2. How many JPS turbo cars actually were there? From what Chris Hones has said there were two, one floor pan and the other space frame car

3. Who built the space frame car that Grice originally raced which then passed onto Lynton, Briggs, Gartner?

[racer69]

I took it that the 1980 Craven Mild car eventually went to Lynton, the 1981 JPS Grice car served Richards in 1982 and into 1983 until the Adelaide crash (he was leading the series at the time wasn't he?)

[M-Kart]

I assume that the turbo BMW 3-series from the USA with gp. 5/IMSA style wings & flares you are reffering to this sort of car:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/bm...07242827ss.htm

(excuse my ignoance but i'm too young to have seen these things in the hands of the JPS team)

if so, is it possible that this may be one of the Australian cars, possibly the one Rob Burns may have bought then sold back to the USA?? (note that the vehicle description only seems to talk about the history/development of this series of BMW's, not this individual car)

All the info/supporting documents/photos with this car (see supporting documents links of the main page linked above) show it was driven/run by Jim Busby in 1979, so is this the current location of one of the US cars that were sold out here to Gibson maybe? it would be good to know if this is where it wound up today! (it does say that the pic on the main page for this car is outdated and the car would have 2 be restored/repainted to look like this again).

[ASSA Member]

Originally Posted by racer69

I took it that the 1980 Craven Mild car eventually went to Lynton,

Bruce Lynton raced the black JPS ex-Grice RHD car in 1982, the 1980 Craven Mild car was LHD.

Originally Posted by racer69

The 1981 JPS Grice car served Richards in 1982 and into 1983 until the Adelaide crash

Richards ran a LHD car in 1982 & 1983 until the big crash at A.I.R.
The 1981 ex Grice JPS car raced against Richards in 1982 with Bruce Lynton driving it and in 1983 with John Briggs at the wheel.

Originally Posted by racer69

(he was leading the series at the time wasn't he?)

Correct, he was leading the points after winning the first two rounds of the series.

Within the next few days I will post up some old magazine clippings that I have of these cars.

[ASSA Member]

Ok here we have it:
The left hand drive turbo car:
Allan Grice driving the left hand drive Craven Mild car:


Note that the rear guards are closed type ones because the car ran in the Australian Sport Sedan Championship at this point in time and open flares/guards weren't allowed.

Jim Richards driving the left hand drive JPS car:


I am going to take a stab here and say it is the same car. Besides the rear guards being open (this was allowed in the GT Championship) look at the the roll cage, front body work, rear wing and even the mirror on the drivers door, they all look the same to me.

The right hand drive turbo car:
I linked some pics earlier in the thread of when Allan Grice drove the car, I haven't got any pictures of when Brue Lynton raced it. Here are two pics of the car when John Briggs ran it
- Still in black paint after taking the car over from Lynton:

- Now with different paint work and open flares/guards to meet the GT regulations:


Below is a picture of the car when Richard Gartner raced the car. As you can see the flares/guards were now changed back to closed type ones to meet the Sport Sedan regulations. The rotary engine was now also fitted so the turbo exhaust pipe out the passenger side door was removed too.

[jd yort]

It is the same car ASSA member. There was a last minute backflip by CAMS with the rules in the early 80's to allow the car to run in IMSA spec. This meant they could run the open guards and I think larger tyres too. It mentions it in the Australian Motor racing Yearbook. I cant recall which year it was though.

[Falcadore]

Was there a theory behind the concave windscreen?

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by ASSA Member

3. Who built the space frame car that Grice originally raced which then passed onto Lynton, Briggs, Gartner?

The "Space Frame" car was built by Gardner (possibly with John Anderson input) to replace the "Factory" car. It was RHD to allow for better exhaust/turbo layout. According to Les Small, it was a "PIG".

From JPS to Lynton to Briggs to Geoff Munday to Gartner(?)

[Robert Bailey]

I see Mike Roddy in Melbourne has just bought a Ex TWR Jaguar XJS Group A car # 004 a winner of the Spa 24 hour race

[Sultan]

Is this any of the Bathurst cars from '85?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Robert Bailey

I see Mike Roddy in Melbourne has just bought a Ex TWR Jaguar XJS Group A car # 004 a winner of the Spa 24 hour race

Wow! That would be worth a small fortune.

There is a (small) thread on the subject of TWR Jaguars Here

[GTRMagic]

Wow!! Again!! Just when you thought the old Ovlov was dead, it appears Here