[Driver] Who's punching above their weight & who isn't?

[chunterer]

Based on what they have at their disposal compared to the resources of the leading teams I would say Sainz, Perez, (Hulk to a lesser degree?), Button, Wehrlein, have been doing so.

Rosberg in recent races definitely not. Kimi blows hot and cold. Massa has dropped off of Bottas generally speaking.

[cds_uk]

Surely you can't have Button in there and not Alonso, also Hulk has shaded Perez this year in my opinion, if not for some rotten luck with strategy calls it wouldn't even be up for discussion.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Yeah surely you take both McLaren drivers or neither...

...I'd say Bottas has been on and off too, whilst Massa really shouldn't be here next season. Grosjean has been doing a fine job this season too. Other than that I'd agree with you, also adding a disheartened and demotivated Daniil Kvyat to the list of those who haven't sparkled this season (from Russia onwards anyway) and I wouldn't be too surprised to see Gasly replace him next season.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Yeah surely you take both McLaren drivers or neither...

or neither and you take vandoorne and his miraculous result earlier in the season

[CJFG]

My over-achievers so far (in no particular order) are: Grosjean (currently at the level for the car but started superbly in the opening two or three races), Perez (earned a pair of podiums in a car which is fourth or fifth fastest on the grid), Vandoorne (can only judge his lone race in Bahrain but he out-qualified and out-scored Button) and Wehrlein (dragged the Manor around well and his performance in Austria was spot-on.)

On the contrary, my under-achievers are: Kvyat (castigated for his early accidents and his confidence has been shot to pieces ever since), Rosberg (started like a juggernaut but has been behind Red Bulls and Ferraris more often than not since Spain, as well as THAT incident in Austria) and Vettel (been on a downward curve since Austria and has been shaded (just) by Raikkonen in my opinion.)

[djinvicta]

Massa finished now...was always a 2nd driver anyway, even now to Bottas.
Kimi keeps Vettel happy who Ferrari think they base a WC on...not with this car.
In the next 6 months, I may rate Max over Dan....

[Mekola]

Can't see the idiom well here. Is the phrase a referral to boxing?
A translation into Spanish is to see if any driver is "over/under his actual height", more or less, AFAIK.

If it's the case, Wehrlein could show better in a better team, and surely Ocon is a gem that needs a craftsman that could make him shine.

[BSchneiderFan]

Pérez, for sure. Is it enough? Remains to be seen. Probably Sainz too. Otherwise I think most of the drivers are at best at their level. Not a season for giant-killing so far.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mekola

Can't see the idiom well here. Is the phrase a referral to boxing?
A translation into Spanish is to see if any driver is "over/under his actual height", more or less, AFAIK.

If it's the case, Wehrlein could show better in a better team, and surely Ocon is a gem that needs a craftsman that could make him shine.

I'd never thought about the origins of the phrase but I suppose it does refer to boxing.
Basically, someone who is said to be punching above their weight is someone who is getting better results than you would expect them to. (So, like a lightweight boxer who can beat heavyweight boxers).

[steve_r]

How can you say Sainz is punching above his weight, when he was being well beaten by his teammate, so much so RBR promoted his teammate leaving Sainz in their no.2 team?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by steve_r

How can you say Sainz is punching above his weight, when he was being well beaten by his teammate, so much so RBR promoted his teammate leaving Sainz in their no.2 team?

I certainly wouldn't have said Sainz was being 'well beaten' by his teammate.

Grosjean looks to be pulling the Haas along, Werhlein looks handy, Vandoorne got himself a drive for next season (I can't see McLaren not putting him in the car for next season). Everyone else is either doing exactly what you expect of them or under performing.

[chillibowl]

yeah, i would have to say that both MV and Sainz were punching above their class just one was punching a bit heavier.

thats not to discount Sainz who now has the harder job driving a car that has had little to no development in both its chassis and its already one year old Ferrari engine.

over the last 4-5 races he has taken the fight to the Williams pair and often outscoring them in the process.

[BSchneiderFan]

I think Grosjean is a fair candidate. Granted, he had some luck early on, but Haas is doing much better than I expected, and it's largely down to him (albeit Gutierrez has had some pretty bad luck).

[chunterer]

Neither of the Enstoners have made anyone sit up and take notice. But then that car is very awkward!

I thought Magnussen might remind us of what Ron Dennis thought of him when he reckined he was a future champion.

[stripedcat]

Rosberg - at the start of the year - it looked like he really upped his game, and who can forget his overtake on the straight at Spain - shame it came to a dramatic end later on. I'll admit though, as of his recent performances, he has been some what lacking. He might bounce back some what -what with Hamilton's engine change coming up, and also he tends to be quicker at Brazil.

Pérez - some decent performances from him this year. Could he hack in a top team though? Hmmmm.

Both McLaren drivers. The McLaren is a bit better than last year - and they have both of late managed to get some decent point
scoring results from it.

The Haas team. Very impressive entry into F1.


Disappointments :-

Williams. Going backwards from last year. Plus, Bottas doesn't seem as strong as last year - and Massa's career seems to be at an end now.

Ferrari. Disappointing - they should have taken a couple of wins this year - the performance just isn't there. It's a shame, as it seems that the changes made and a rejuvenated Vettel from last season haven't translated into much this year. I think we have to rely on Red Bull to challenge Mercedes for wins this season. Also Kimi does look disappointing this season especially.

[BSchneiderFan]

Vettel is performing at the level you would expect from a quadruple champion, but his team lost him wins in Australia and Canada. I'm baffled that Ferrari have kept Räikkönen on for next year. They must just want an easy life. There are easily half a dozen drivers they could have had who would push Vettel harder and generally drive the team forward.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Vettel is performing at the level you would expect from a quadruple champion, but his team lost him wins in Australia and Canada. I'm baffled that Ferrari have kept Räikkönen on for next year. They must just want an easy life. There are easily half a dozen drivers they could have had who would push Vettel harder and generally drive the team forward.

How do you draw this conclusion.

Kimi heads Se in the WDC standings.

Quali before penalties:

Ros 1.58; Ricc 4.08; Vett 4.17; Ham 4.58; Raik 5.58; Bott 7.58; Ver 7.67;
Hulk 8.83; Per 10; Sainz 10.33; Mass 10.92; Alonso 11.55; VanD 12;
Butt 12.5; Kvy 12.92; Rogro 13.67; Guitt 14.58.
So the two are only separated by Hamilton who is apparently sub par compared to his team mate and Ricciardo and Vettel. Actually because he qualified in 22nd pos in China, 10 in Russia, and 10 at Euro Gp, which spoilt a good record.
I guess though Kimi is performing well against he who is probably the best in the field, and is good for the team dynamic, is the answer.

[stripedcat]

Today - Force India. They're beating Williams now in the WCC.

[BSchneiderFan]

Agreed - Force India are showing very well. Think they'll struggle to keep Pérez for next year, though.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wnut

How do you draw this conclusion.

Kimi heads Se in the WDC standings.

Quali before penalties:

Ros 1.58; Ricc 4.08; Vett 4.17; Ham 4.58; Raik 5.58; Bott 7.58; Ver 7.67;
Hulk 8.83; Per 10; Sainz 10.33; Mass 10.92; Alonso 11.55; VanD 12;
Butt 12.5; Kvy 12.92; Rogro 13.67; Guitt 14.58.
So the two are only separated by Hamilton who is apparently sub par compared to his team mate and Ricciardo and Vettel. Actually because he qualified in 22nd pos in China, 10 in Russia, and 10 at Euro Gp, which spoilt a good record.
I guess though Kimi is performing well against he who is probably the best in the field, and is good for the team dynamic, is the answer.

Vettel probably best in the field?!

No chance.

He was found out in 2014 and he's getting found out again this year.

Top liner and exciting to watch yes, but it seems he can't perform at a consistently high level without a serious car advantage.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Vettel probably best in the field?!

No chance.

He was found out in 2014 and he's getting found out again this year.

Top liner and exciting to watch yes, but it seems he can't perform at a consistently high level without a serious car advantage.

In 2014 Vettel needed to perform badly enough to invoke his escape clause, going to Ferrari was only worth about $50 million dollars a year extra in his pocket.

2015 he was able to win 3 GPs for Ferrari.

2016 Ferrari has cost him wins in Australia and Canada, and he has had a DNS and two retirements.

I am comfortable that he is at least as good as anyone currently in F1.

P.S. Kimi would appear to be a very good choice for 2017 imo.

[BSchneiderFan]

I just think Kimi is a very lazy choice. Past his best and nowhere near capable of consistently pushing Vettel. I know Ferrari have a history of an established 1-2 pecking order, but there are some exciting younger drivers who might make Seb sit up and take notice.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I just think Kimi is a very lazy choice. Past his best and nowhere near capable of consistently pushing Vettel. I know Ferrari have a history of an established 1-2 pecking order, but there are some exciting younger drivers who might make Seb sit up and take notice.

Kimi and Seb get on well and work together, which has to be beneficial to the team.

Besides who that is available would be capable of Kimi's pace and provide his level of feedback; which is by all accounts very good; in 2017?

Shooting for the, will be a future star seems to come short more often than actually delivering a future star. Dropping Schumacher for Raikkonen being an example.

If they are not on his pace they should not be in the car, should they?

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by wnut

In 2014 Vettel needed to perform badly enough to invoke his escape clause, going to Ferrari was only worth about $50 million dollars a year extra in his pocket.

Are you seriously suggesting that he underperformed deliberately so he could orchestrate a move to Ferrari!!!?

[djinvicta]

I know! I re read that thread answer twice too! That Red Bull that year was a dog..