Official Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2016: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Page 8

littleman · 29 Nov 2016, 10:14 (Ref:3692013)

The sport needs Hamilton and Alonso together at Mercedes..........we'd get the ultimate World Champion we all deserve then.....no arguments.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 29 Nov 2016, 10:24 (Ref:3692018)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bauble

Felipe Massa leading his home Grand Prix, hands the win to his team mate allowing Kimi to become World Champion for Ferrari. That is what being part of a team is all about. Lewis drives a Mercedes, he is NOT a Mercedes driver.

Winning the 2007 Brazilian GP wouldn't have given Massa the WDC as he wasn't a championship contender. Lewis was the other championship contender and reigning champion, going into the last race. That's the difference.

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Nov 2016, 10:59 (Ref:3692028)

Although, as referenced earlier, Peter Collins gave his car to Fangio so Fangio became Champion. In those days the rules permitted drivers to change cars mid ace. Peter was in line for the Championship had he not swapped. Then Moss lost the WDC to Hawthorn who only had one win to his five. Hawthorn had spun and continued during the last race (Syracuse(?)) and the organisers were set to dock him a few points. Moss spoke up and the points were retained which meant that Moss lost the championship.

Agreed all of the above seems old fashioned and somewhat peculiar compared to today but I think these examples typify what the sport should be about.

Lewis is a great driver but he lacks class. He is therefore not a great sportsman.

**bella** · 29 Nov 2016, 11:31 (Ref:3692037)

i understand your point but in the formula one of today how does one be a good sportsman in that context? where are the opportunities for grand gestures?

Wims · 29 Nov 2016, 11:47 (Ref:3692039)

Following team orders would be a start

Mike Harte · 29 Nov 2016, 11:58 (Ref:3692044)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Following team orders would be a start

And, according to Toto Wolff, these matters were discussed with both drivers in detail in the run up to the race in Australia earlier this year. And Hamilton chose to disregard the protocols that he agreed to at that time.

It is quite obvious from the comments coming out of Mercedes that they are (understatement coming) somewhat disappointed at Hamilton's actions. Not that he backed up Rosberg, but that he did it at a point that they believed that both cars could have been overtaken. And also about Hamilton's comments on the radio in the last few laps.

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Nov 2016, 12:07 (Ref:3692047)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

i understand your point but in the formula one of today how does one be a good sportsman in that context? where are the opportunities for grand gestures?

Thanks but the point is not about "grand gestures" as you put it, but more about manning up and accepting defeat gracefully.

Once told to get the lead out, he should have done so.

Akrapovic · 29 Nov 2016, 12:17 (Ref:3692049)

Why accept defeat when you haven't been defeated yet? It isn't done until they cross the line, and until then shouldn't he be doing everything in his power, within the rules, to win the championship?

It's funny people quoting Jackie Stewart. Jackie also said that the best way to win a race is the slowest time possible. Lewis did that. He didn't drive faster than he needed to.

I can't believe people sit and criticise Lewis for trying to win the title, and then also say Rosberg doesn't deserve the title.

Also, just a wee spanner in the works - we should obey team orders at all times and be a good driver yeah? Why was it different when Red Bull were telling the drivers not to pass, and Vettel became a bloody comic villain?

Moneyseeker · 29 Nov 2016, 12:18 (Ref:3692050)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

And, according to Toto Wolff, these matters were discussed with both drivers in detail in the run up to the race in Australia earlier this year. And Hamilton chose to disregard the protocols that he agreed to at that time.

It is quite obvious from the comments coming out of Mercedes that they are (understatement coming) somewhat disappointed at Hamilton's actions. Not that he backed up Rosberg, but that he did it at a point that they believed that both cars could have been overtaken. And also about Hamilton's comments on the radio in the last few laps.

You'll forgive me for saying that surely Mercedes are looking very hard to find something to be upset about....

They won 19 out of 21 races
Won the WCC
1st & 2nd in the drivers championship
Had 20 poles out of 21 races
They led for 1018 out of 1213 laps or 84% of the laps.

Can't see much to grumble about myself, what more do they want?!

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Nov 2016, 12:27 (Ref:3692055)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Why accept defeat when you haven't been defeated yet? It isn't done until they cross the line, and until then shouldn't he be doing everything in his power, within the rules, to win the championship?

He was never going to be defeated in the race ergo why moan about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It's funny people quoting Jackie Stewart. Jackie also said that the best way to win a race is the slowest time possible. Lewis did that. He didn't drive faster than he needed to.

Alain Prost. http://www.inspiringquotes.us/author/7268-alain-prost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I can't believe people sit and criticise Lewis for trying to win the title, and then also say Rosberg doesn't deserve the title.

Not entirely sure where this has come from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Also, just a wee spanner in the works - we should obey team orders at all times and be a good driver yeah? Why was it different when Red Bull were telling the drivers not to pass, and Vettel became a bloody comic villain?

Hmm, where were you when multi 21 was being bandied around? Vettel also went down in my estimation on that day.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 29 Nov 2016, 12:40 (Ref:3692059)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Why accept defeat when you haven't been defeated yet? It isn't done until they cross the line, and until then shouldn't he be doing everything in his power, within the rules, to win the championship?

It's funny people quoting Jackie Stewart. Jackie also said that the best way to win a race is the slowest time possible. Lewis did that. He didn't drive faster than he needed to.

I can't believe people sit and criticise Lewis for trying to win the title, and then also say Rosberg doesn't deserve the title.

Also, just a wee spanner in the works - we should obey team orders at all times and be a good driver yeah? Why was it different when Red Bull were telling the drivers not to pass, and Vettel became a bloody comic villain?

Multi 21?

VIVA GT · 29 Nov 2016, 13:08 (Ref:3692065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Following team orders would be a start

An interesting comment considering you use a picture of you Max V as your profile picture...

old man · 29 Nov 2016, 13:19 (Ref:3692067)

If this discussion were taking place in a bar, this is the point at which I go home

**BertMk2** · 29 Nov 2016, 13:20 (Ref:3692068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

If this discussion were taking place in a bar, this is the point at which I go home

Richard C · 29 Nov 2016, 13:57 (Ref:3692074)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

If this discussion were taking place in a bar, this is the point at which I go home

It's going to be a long winter until racing starts again in 2017 if this is all we have to talk about!

Richard

**bjohnsonsmith** · 29 Nov 2016, 14:02 (Ref:3692075)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

It's going to be a long winter until racing starts again in 2017 if this is all we have to talk about!

Richard

Daytona 24 hours is on January 28-29 next year. I'm looking forward to that.

djinvicta · 29 Nov 2016, 14:02 (Ref:3692076)

The UK Press is having a great time saying he might be sacked. Oh right...

Akrapovic · 29 Nov 2016, 14:15 (Ref:3692081)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

He was never going to be defeated in the race ergo why moan about it?

I don't understand what you mean. Lewis had not lost the championship yet. He did not accept defeat until the race was over and did everything in his power to win the title. That's racing. What Mercedes were ordering him to do was to lose the world championship. That's...not racing. There are two titles to win. One is the teams, one is the drivers. Mercedes were going to win both, and they should've let their drivers fight it out for the big prize. They employed racing drivers, not taxi drivers.

Quote:

Alain Prost. http://www.inspiringquotes.us/author/7268-alain-prost

The wonderful thing about the internet is anyone can type anything. But if we're being pedandtic then - http://www.clivejames.com/articles/clive/lauda Lauda, actually. Which makes it even funnier, given who is current employers are.

Lewis did exactly what Lauda said. Until it didn't suit Lauda anymore of course.

Quote:

Not entirely sure where this has come from.

Really? Well on this forum we have people saying Lewis is a bad sport for not rolling over accepting defeat before he was even defeated. Meanwhile, BBC published an article literally 5 minutes after the race was finished asking if Rosberg was a worthy champion - and BBC Radio 5 Live was immediately questioning it too. He hadn't even finished celebrating yet and the sour grapes were all over the ground from both sides.

Quote:

Hmm, where were you when multi 21 was being bandied around? Vettel also went down in my estimation on that day.

So Vettel and Lewis go down in your estimation for ignoring team orders and racing? If you take any of the greats, and told them mid race that they were to give up their chances of winning the championship, you'd get the exact same result as what we got at the weekend. Senna, Prost, Mansell, Schumacher - they'd have all ignored a team order to give up the championship - and that's exactly what Lewis did. The idea of telling Senna to give up the title to Prost is hilarious. I wonder what his reaction would've been.

And all that fuss over Multi-21. What short memories and rose tints people have on the supposed victim of that situation -

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93001

Someone will no doubt ask why that situation was relevant - it's because they all do it. Even when Mark spat the dummy and played the victim, he was also guilty of it. They all are. Every single one of them. They're racing drivers. They are racing to win championships. If you don't think what Lewis did was ok, then you're going to have to have a think about every other driver on the grid too.

Wims · 29 Nov 2016, 14:38 (Ref:3692087)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

An interesting comment considering you use a picture of you Max V as your profile picture...

Who cares about my profile picture? I typically use a picture of whoever has some kind of media momentum. I've been using pictures of vettel, kimi, lewis, alonso, romain etc etc. I have been meaning to start using Niko's picture, haven't gotten time to do it yet, but thanks for the reminder, I'll switch to Rosbergs picture for sure

JeremySmith · 29 Nov 2016, 14:46 (Ref:3692088)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

An interesting comment considering you use a picture of you Max V as your profile picture...

This is why I love TenTenths... 👍🏻

JeremySmith · 29 Nov 2016, 14:49 (Ref:3692089)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Who cares about my profile picture? I typically use a picture of whoever has some kind of media momentum. I've been using pictures of vettel, kimi, lewis, alonso, romain etc etc. I have been meaning to start using Niko's picture, haven't gotten time to do it yet, but thanks for the reminder, I'll switch to Rosbergs picture for sure

You tell him 😀

**bjohnsonsmith** · 29 Nov 2016, 14:51 (Ref:3692090)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Who cares about my profile picture? I typically use a picture of whoever has some kind of media momentum. I've been using pictures of vettel, kimi, lewis, alonso, romain etc etc. I have been meaning to start using Niko's picture, haven't gotten time to do it yet, but thanks for the reminder, I'll switch to Rosbergs picture for sure

What about a car?

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Nov 2016, 14:53 (Ref:3692094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't understand what you mean.

Clearly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The wonderful thing about the internet is anyone can type anything. But if we're being pedandtic then - http://www.clivejames.com/articles/clive/lauda Lauda, actually. Which makes it even funnier, given who is current employers are.

Lewis did exactly what Lauda said. Until it didn't suit Lauda anymore of course.

Or indeed Fangio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Really? Well on this forum we have people saying Lewis is a bad sport for not rolling over accepting defeat before he was even defeated. Meanwhile, BBC published an article literally 5 minutes after the race was finished asking if Rosberg was a worthy champion - and BBC Radio 5 Live was immediately questioning it too. He hadn't even finished celebrating yet and the sour grapes were all over the ground from both sides.

I think he was a bad sport for not getting on with the job, instead he whined about losing a Championship. Already said that backing Nico up was ok as far as the racing is concerned. So your point is a bit lost on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So Vettel and Lewis go down in your estimation for ignoring team orders and racing? If you take any of the greats, and told them mid race that they were to give up their chances of winning the championship, you'd get the exact same result as what we got at the weekend. Senna, Prost, Mansell, Schumacher - they'd have all ignored a team order to give up the championship - and that's exactly what Lewis did. The idea of telling Senna to give up the title to Prost is hilarious. I wonder what his reaction would've been.

Greats such as Moss, Collins, Brabham, and others? That's the issue here. Hamilton is not a great. He's very good and when he doesn't complain he's almost great. He's too childish to be anything but a good driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

And all that fuss over Multi-21. What short memories and rose tints people have on the supposed victim of that situation -

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93001

Someone will no doubt ask why that situation was relevant - it's because they all do it. Even when Mark spat the dummy and played the victim, he was also guilty of it. They all are. Every single one of them. They're racing drivers. They are racing to win championships. If you don't think what Lewis did was ok, then you're going to have to have a think about every other driver on the grid too.

Still doesn't change anything. Hamilton disobeyed an order from his employer. Just because others have done it doesn't make it right.

Richard C · 29 Nov 2016, 15:09 (Ref:3692097)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Who cares about my profile picture? I typically use a picture of whoever has some kind of media momentum. I've been using pictures of vettel, kimi, lewis, alonso, romain etc etc. I have been meaning to start using Niko's picture, haven't gotten time to do it yet, but thanks for the reminder, I'll switch to Rosbergs picture for sure

I prefer scientists or engineers for my avatar!

Richard

djinvicta · 29 Nov 2016, 15:11 (Ref:3692098)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I prefer scientists or engineers for my avatar!

Richard

Or scantily clad grid girls...

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