Whats the point of Motors TV televising races with single figure entries?

[Al Weyman]

Sorry Claire i disagree again. I think its BTCC and the bore that is F1 that is putting off viewing audiences. If you had watched the last round of Classic Thunder there was more action packed into that 15 or 20 minutes than the entire race at Valencia which I struggled staying awake watching. Its the nub of my whole point the real action packed club racing is not being aired because of this pay to display scenario. My memory goes back to when club racing was indeed aired on mainstream terrestial TV and the audiences at the tracks were correspondingly good, something has gone wrong and this is part of it. Look at the BBC video from Crystal Palace on YouTube of the mighty race between the yanks and the Minis, gripping stuff and on the box. You may then just start getting the sponsor back in.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Sorry Claire i disagree again. I think its BTCC and the bore that is F1 that is putting off viewing audiences. If you had watched the last round of Classic Thunder there was more action packed into that 15 or 20 minutes than the entire race at Valencia which I struggled staying awake watching. Its the nub of my whole point the real action packed club racing is not being aired because of this pay to display scenario. My memory goes back to when club racing was indeed aired on mainstream terrestial TV and the audiences at the tracks were correspondingly good, something has gone wrong and this is part of it. Look at the BBC video from Crystal Palace on YouTube of the mighty race between the yanks and the Minis, gripping stuff and on the box. You may then just start getting the sponsor back in.

Al, griping stuff and on YOU TUBE....it was BBC but now on YOU TUBE!!!! you are answering your own questions this is going round and round, lets do an I.E., I am a spectator...who occassionally watches racing....here is my choice i can

1 go to circuit, pay entrance, stand in one place, watch cars go past, buy programme, move to another viewing area, watch cars go past, coupled with that is standing unless I want to pay extra to sit, paying to eat unless I take my own, Petrol etc OR
2 watch on You Tube/Internet/mates on board footage, I can see interviews with relevant famous drivers, I dont have to move, my fridge is stocked with relevant Wine/Beer/Spirits, i dont have to worry about driving anywher, paying extra because if I subscribe to Sky basic I get Motors in free (well I do) its also available on podcasts so I can catch up on the train in the morning/evening...just to confirm Al, there is MOR CHOICE NOW!

Who said that viewing audiences are being put off?....no they are not, viewing figures for the GP and for the likes of BTCC are up worldwide, and the gates are not suffering at that level at all Al, "the bore" of GP is your view of it (its mine also) but its NOT THE MASSES Al!! .its that simple...you are an Enthusiast ...indeed everyone on here is...BTCC and GP are the "fair weather" support...BUT, unfortunately Al, they are THE MASSES, its why the circuit will promote it, its because IT PAYS FOR ITSELF, the gate from the British GP is the only thing that Silverstone gets Al, they lay out about 6 mil to get back 7 if they are lucky...but the gate DOES pay for itself and attendance to that crap machine is on the up...once again Al let me stress...Im not arguing in favour of how it is...Im saying HOW IT IS....thats all and no freebe on Motors TV is going to change it Motors TV is an Enthusiasts channel, its not a mainstream channel.

As for sponsors Al, why would I sponsor a clubman event when I can if I want sponsor a Gif that will appear on the relevant site 24/7?..its measurable as to how much I owe the Gif host, because each click is counted, its "Impression" stored...its effective marketing for todays multi medium world Al

I will say again Al, please dont think I like it, Im not sticking up for it and in truth, I went to a round of BTCC and left after an hour and a half...but why?...because I amd the same as you ....an enthusiast....and we are not the masses unfortunately x

[Al Weyman]

I let you have the last word Claire, womans progative but I still stick by my views

[robhollyman]

Originally Posted by andy97

Wonder what the "polishers" (rather than the racers) in the club make of that?

it would be nice if all racers took some pride in what they race and actually polished their cars once in a while rather than turning up with their car with the same crap on it that it had at the last meeting.

[Al Weyman]

Nothing wrong with a nice car thats for sure. BTW what on earth engine did that Sunbeam Tiger have that was reported to have 600bhp, cant have been a 4.7 Ford small block with Ford heads thats for sure.

[robhollyman]

i was told its over 700hp, i would have thought it weighed under a ton too.

i followed it for a bit at silverstone, it managed to get side ways on every gear change on the national straight in the dry.

[Moosehead]

My 2p =

Why does the BTCC get good attendance figures? Because its been on TV????

Any other reasons??

[robhollyman]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

My 2p =

Why does the BTCC get good attendance figures? Because its been on TV????

Any other reasons??

its well advertised.

[GORDON STREETER]

I would think that some of the banger racing tactics get a fair few through the gates

[grantp]

Originally Posted by robhollyman

it would be nice if all racers took some pride in what they race and actually polished their cars once in a while rather than turning up with their car with the same crap on it that it had at the last meeting.

It seems to me that most do that these days, especially in the Historics. However at a certain age the concept of historic patina takes over and I have to say that in the right circumstances that has a certain appeal.

On the other hand if the members of the 'team' turn up in the same state one might start to worry no matter how historically authentic it might be!

[grantp]

Would it be reasonable to guess that there is a lot of speculative investment going on here and any additional contribution for the lower profile events helps to cover it for a relatively modest 'I was on the TV once' fee.

The 10 minute races fit into that idea - short and sharp and will be more likely to keep people in or near their seats 'cos if, in the viewer's eyes, it's not an interesting session the next one might be - you get 10 mins to make tea, grab a beer, visit the toilet facilities or prepare a pot noodle. Or maybe pop out for a ciggie.

The problem is that 10 minute races and the risk of small grids seemed to work out OK at Mallory last year but the grids were not that small as I recall. Mallory, however, is a compact, short circuit. BH Indy the same.

Donington isn't, though I suppose they could reduce all sort of costs and make the place look crowded if they could just run on the Melbourne Loop.

Snetterton would have the same problem - or is there a 100 circuit option there?

Lydden would be OK as would Silverstone National, just about.

The shortest layout at Oulton might work. I can't see Croft being quite right BUT there may be some options for getting cars on and off the track between races that would to some extent help the 10 min format.

I haven't been to Thruxton or Castle Combe for decades but they strike me as being a bit marginal for 10 min races.

Mallory seemed to work in , I suspect, because getting cars on and off the circuit can be done quite quickly if everyone has been made properly aware of the need.

Once one has pinned down what makes the broadcast model acceptable, allowing for the potential that grids months in the future may be of unpredictable size, you will have, at worst, filler content. At best something that is so good, even if only in parts, that it will be globally attractive and highly repeatable well into the future. On the basis there are a lot of airminutes to fill and competition from the Youtubes of this world (coincidentally also tending to a max 10 minute format in that case), it's worth takiong a punt at a variety of events. If the contribution is not guaranteed but the risks are shared between the business partners it may be a risk worth taking.

For Motors TV the need to continue build a brand and maintain the awareness of their market presence and to do so at lowest cost may be the main priority, with revenues expected to follow in the future.

The technology partner(s) may be seeing some speculation as worthwhile for proving and promoting their product - perhaps to a wider 'audience' in the business rather than the public. The market is potentially huge. They need to be in it demonstrating what they can deliver even if (or perhaps especially if) the content ain't considered great. To that end a small grid can still prove the point without having to put in too much support effort.

Of course revenue, in terms of operating profit, may not be an objective for everyone. There are, despite the 90s dot com bubble, still plenty of 'media' businesses out there that seem to be developing with an eye to a future buyout value rather than a self perpetuating business model. If it works it's a fast way for some to get rich quick. There are probably a few people out on the tracks who could explain how that works.

[RTH]

Government has frozen TV licence fee. The BBC have to find some very big budget cuts.

Is is looking increasingly likely that BBC will save £60M per year by not renewing the contract to broadcast GP racing when it expires in 3 years time.
Wimbledon is a very costly event for BBC is also under the spotlight for cuts.

When the Sky premier football deal was done for the next period it was a substantially lower sum than previously due to much reduced competition .

Several decades ago the BBC would do live outside broadcasts of national level race meetings and there was a great deal more variety in what was shown.

Saturday afternoon Grandstand made perhaps 6 visits to Lydden Hill for 4 lap rallycross races in mid winter in a sea of mud which was brief but highly entertaining.
Vastly improved technology requiring fewer people ought to make it less expensive for some simple outside broadcasts, remains to be seen how sport on TV goes from here.

[Tim Falce]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always remember rally cross from lydden being on ITV before wrestling although it was 40+ years ago and my memory like other bits of me doesn't work so well nowadays.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by robhollyman

i was told its over 700hp, i would have thought it weighed under a ton too.

i followed it for a bit at silverstone, it managed to get side ways on every gear change on the national straight in the dry.

If that is the Jackie Cochrane red one, you are both right. I heard it made 702 on a big dyno. And its not the small block, I think it was out to about 7 litres. It must be an awful thing to drive with all that weight hanging over the nose.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by SAMD

If that is the Jackie Cochrane red one, you are both right. I heard it made 702 on a big dyno. And its not the small block, I think it was out to about 7 litres. It must be an awful thing to drive with all that weight hanging over the nose.

So where is the historic value of that I dont get it? It should have a 4.2 or a 4.7 in the car.

I think it was BBC Tim maybe they both did as there is that famous clip of Murryism when Kieth Ripp rolls spectacularly.Thus started the Ripp Speed empire such is the power of TV!

[AGD A105/6]

If it was an FIA Mk1 Tiger like mine it should have a 4.2 but no-one pretends that it is. In the championships Jackie races in, his car is legal, and very spectacular. The TSL timing sheet is messed up so I can't confirm but I believe the only car to beat him over the weekend was the similar Tiger of Dave Smallridge, however it cost him a gearbox to do it. Both cars flew past me towards the end of the first Sunbeam race with Dave's car trailing smoke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXq3iWyPTw

Zoe North gave him a good run too in the 2nd Sunbeam race, closest finish of the weekend at 0.025s gap at the flag.

I didn't mind 2x 10-minute races instead of one 15-minute race but the extended waits in the assembly area and the loooong day was a pain.

[midgetman]

BBC. The story goes that rallycross was born when foot & mouth disease stopped the RAC Rally from running one year. Very similar format to Motors race meetings...

Howard Strawford @ Combe is on record as saying that most standard 10-lappers are too long as punters only interested in starts and finishes. Motors event wasn't that well received by Combe regular drivers, the increase in entry fees didn't match the extra time they received I believe. I'm not quoting gospel truth here, only from what I can glean from the forums.

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by midgetman

BBC. The story goes that rallycross was born when foot & mouth disease stopped the RAC Rally from running one year. Very similar format to Motors race meetings...

I seem to remember that Rallycross was invented when snow stopped all regular BBC sport (Rugby & horse racing) for weeks.Come the day came the thaw and I seem to remember Minis splashing around a muddy field behind the stand at Brands Hatch.
As to Donington my observation was that marshals outnumbered spectators.

[Al Weyman]

I will say I would prefer two ten lappers than one 20 minute especially if rollers. Too much wear and tear if standing starts though.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I think it was BBC Tim maybe they both did as there is that famous clip of Murryism when Kieth Ripp rolls spectacularly.Thus started the Ripp Speed empire such is the power of TV!

Ah, may well have been on at the same time as wrestling, there was often arguments about my dad always having to watch wrestling. My lasting memory of those Lydden rallycross days were that of a four wheel drive 3 litre Capri that left everything else standing.

[GORDON STREETER]

Rallycross history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallycross
But Wiki doesn't always get it right .

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Rob29

I seem to remember that Rallycross was invented when snow stopped all regular BBC sport (Rugby & horse racing) for weeks.Come the day came the thaw and I seem to remember Minis splashing around a muddy field behind the stand at Brands Hatch.
As to Donington my observation was that marshals outnumbered spectators.

I think it was in the paddock or car park ?

[lml698]

Interesting debate on this subject.
Let me put some details on the matter
Motors TV were hawking around the idea for this TV deal to lots of clubs over the winter. It costs the race organising club about £25 k to have Motors TV cover your meeting. ( so that sorts out one bet) Almost all the clubs bar AMOC told Motors where to go !!! It costs about a further £38 - £40 k per day to run a meeting like this at Donington.
The words "senses" and "leave" come to mind especially when you have grids of 10 cars and a knobly Lister and a 1932 1.5 L Aston in the same race !!!!
Motors TV INSIST on the 10 min races . So the TV is dictating terms as regards the programe.
It is no surprise to see such a poor turnout and drivers leaving AMOC.
So much for clubs running race meetings for the benefit of their members !!!!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by lml698

It is no surprise to see such a poor turnout and drivers leaving AMOC.
So much for clubs running race meetings for the benefit of their members !!!!

This has been happening over the past few years, probably something to do with the AMOC and heads up own arses etc.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by lml698

Interesting debate on this subject.
Let me put some details on the matter
Motors TV were hawking around the idea for this TV deal to lots of clubs over the winter. It costs the race organising club about £25 k to have Motors TV cover your meeting. ( so that sorts out one bet) Almost all the clubs bar AMOC told Motors where to go !!! It costs about a further £38 - £40 k per day to run a meeting like this at Donington.
The words "senses" and "leave" come to mind especially when you have grids of 10 cars and a knobly Lister and a 1932 1.5 L Aston in the same race !!!!
Motors TV INSIST on the 10 min races . So the TV is dictating terms as regards the programe.
It is no surprise to see such a poor turnout and drivers leaving AMOC.
So much for clubs running race meetings for the benefit of their members !!!!

Blimey not much more to say really!