Speed News: New Effort to Unify the Indy Racing League and Champ Car (Merged again)

[GP Racer]

I have a similar story Tim.

Last season, I was able to convince my F1 friends that I go to the USGP with, to sit down and watch an IRL race. After much pleading, and wise-cracks they did, and it was Texas. Well, needless to say, they were very turned on with the on-track action, afterall it was Texas! They loved the speed, passing for the lead, and the fact that so many cars had a shot to win. Say what you will about the aero package, it is exciting. So while not all have become hard-core IndyCar guys, mostly because of the politics in AOW, a couple have stuck with it.

I believe the racing in the IRL will sell itself, if we can get butts in the seats, and eyeballs on the screen. The racing is good, and its exciting, but we have to work on all those things I mentioned to get people to see it, and just as importantly, stay with it!

Thanks for the compliment Team Owner! Coming from an insider like yourself means alot.

Oh, and feel free to pass on my suggestion list to TG when you see him!

[mountainstar]

A few points:

1. No we can't go back to 1990. Ultimately I don't believe there will be a reunification until one series goes under. Each has pursued it's own path and as time goes along they spread further apart.

2. Long Beach- IRL fans already seem to be notching this one up in their corner, but not so fast. Just looking at it from a non partisan business perspective, one has to ask themselves what more the IRL is going to bring to the table. Champcar played to a full crowd this year. It's rumoured that Mr. George is willing to write a $25 million dollar check to secure the race, but to me if you have to do that and you can't do it on merit alone you have to question the long term value.

3. Nascar- While Nascar is a interesting business case study and without a doubt many lessons can be learned from the Nascar machine, I think you're a fool if you try to duplicate Nascar in the marketplace. I think to be successful, you have to be you're own distinct product. The IRL I believe has tried to mimic Nascar in recent years and the numbers have fallen through the floor. Champcar has openly pursued a street festival business model which appears to work quite well(Surfers, Long Beach, Denver are good examples). I know to some, "street parades" are an abomination, but some of us love it.

4. Big Sponsor- GP Racer, you are free and encouraged to try, but with the current state of open wheel racing, no CEO will ever sign off on a Nextel type expenditure to promote either series. The numbers don't even come close to adding up to make it worthwhile.

5. Indy- Once the big race in America, it is now fading into the sunset. Judging from the numbers and interest, it is now just another race and is no longer a jewel worth fighting for. People ask what assets of value champcar has to the IRL, but what does the IRL have anymore that has any value to champcar?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by GP Racer

It won't work, simply because NASCAR has raised the bar.

People today expect more from there racing dollars and entertainment time. There are lots of ways to find entertainment today, so if your going to get looked at, you better damn well be giving people something extra, and NASCAR has done that. They have revolutionized the sport of racing, and how people view racing. Fans feel as though there part of something big, and they are. They are the first series to make racing mainstream, where yuppies, bikers, rednecks, lawyers, truckdrivers and stockbrockers all love to watch NASCAR these days. They have been able to do what no other racing series has ever been able to, mass market. Mention racing, and people say NASCAR! NASCAR is racing!

Jhansen, your a sports car guy, but how many people do you know that you can actually discuss that with? I'd venture none, besides close friends. But you can always talk about NASCAR. Its in Americas psyche, like football.

So IMO, there is no way to go back to 1990, reunification or not. People want and expect more today, and if your sport doesn't have it, then maybe Arena Football, or the X-Games does. NASCAR has found a system that works. Take the best of it, and run with it...

If your last statement is true then racing as you see is set for a very big fall.
Baseball found that out the hard way and racing, as you have outlined it does not have the regenerative powers of baseball.
IMSA and car based, not marketing driven hero driver based, racing is doing just fine. It has detroit behind it and in auto racing that is what truly counts.

Indy car racing had a bit of a shock back when Ford pulled out of racing to the point of telling anyone running the Ford Cosworth that if they did not remove the cam-covers with the word Ford, they would find themselves in court.
NASCAR, is really (at the mercy of?) the sponsors and car manufacturers, so far they are fine but if a car manufacturer ever decided to play hard-ball, for any reason, I have a feeling the France boys would be defecating brass tacks.

Auto racing took a very big hit with the so-called energy crisis of the seventies, it survived because there were teams, and fans, loyal to various makes, to keep the ball rolling.
Chevy and Porsche loyalist kept right on doing things as they always did, all it took was some savy die-hard Ford loyalists, to try to make a racer out of the Mustang when Ford cared less, to start finishing high and finally win, and suddenly Ford was back in racing.
If such a thing were to happen now, any series using tube-frame thingies, and whose series is based on marketing financed hero drivers, would be screwed.
Fortunately for Indy cars, Indy will probably always be around to use as a focal point to keep things going.

Bob

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I know to some, "street parades" are an abomination, but some of us love it.

If all street circuits were as good as Surfers' or St. Pete's, I wouldn't mind them one bit.

Originally Posted by mountainstar

5. Indy- Once the big race in America, it is now fading into the sunset. Judging from the numbers and interest, it is now just another race and is no longer a jewel worth fighting for.

Funny enough, that sort of talk - belittling the Indy 500 - is what got us in this open-wheel mess in the first place.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

NASCAR, is really (at the mercy of?) the sponsors and car manufacturers, so far they are fine but if a car manufacturer ever decided to play hard-ball, for any reason, I have a feeling the France boys would be defecating brass tacks.

With Dodge coming in relatively recently and Toyota looking set to enter within the next few years as well, I think it's safe to say hell would most likely have to freeze over before the manufacturers will start being a problem. Not to mention they would have to unite against NASCAR (never going to happen) for anything to happen, since just one manufacturer throwing a fit wouldn't make the least of difference. I mean, if NASCAR weren't too bothered back in the 60's when Chrysler and Ford took turns boycotting it, why should they care now? And let's not forget when the majority of the top stars formed the Professional Drivers Association and decided to boycott the first race at Talladega, back in 1969. Do you think France cared? No, he waved good-bye to the drivers who were involved in the boycott, invited others and still staged the race. The Professional Drivers Association dissolved soon thereafter.

As for sponsors, they come and go all the time, and right now, with NASCAR being just about as mainstream as it can be, the teams aren't exactly having major problems finding new ones.

[rustyfan]

A comment in the Infineon-testing thread got me thinking about this, but I figured this thread would be a better place for it...

Here's a reason for unification as good as any... Imagine if you had the following field come down to take the green flag at Road America (presented in alphabetical order to avoid getting any loyalists on either side getting upset ):


A.J. Allmendinger
Alex Barron
Sebastien Bourdais
Ronnie Bremer
Ryan Briscoe
Ed Carpenter
Patrick Carpentier
Helio Castroneves
Cristiano da Matta
Fabrizio del Monte
Scott Dixon
Mario Dominguez
Tomas Enge
A.J. Foyt IV
Dario Franchitti
Timo Glock
Bryan Herta
Sam Hornish Jr.
Ryan Hunter-Reay
Bruno Junqueira
Tony Kanaan
Darren Manning
Marcus Marshall
Kosuke Matsuura
Vitor Meira
Danica Patrick
Nelson Philippe
Andrew Ranger
Buddy Rice
Tomas Scheckter
Oriol Servia
Scott Sharp
Alex Sperafico
Alex Tagliani
Paul Tracy
Jimmy Vasser
Dan Wheldon
Justin Wilson
Bjorn Wirdheim
Roger Yasukawa

40 drivers... Yeah, that would be one helluva sight coming down towards turn one alright

[Jordi]

That's what we wanna see, rusty.

That's how it should be. The best drivers racing in the States racing the best looking and quickest cars, on the best racetracks. Damnit, even God knows it should be this way!

[BootsOntheSide]

You'd never get a 40-car unified field. The teams who can run 10th in one chamnpionship will be getting some TV attention, spornsohip and reward. Ocne those teams are running 20th in a unified series, it becomes harder to be noticed. NASCAR is struggling to support 40 entries, and no united OW series could in the short term, especially with races in Japan, Australia and maybe further afield.

[Kicking-back]

Kevin Kalkoven had a further meeting with Tony George in New York last week.

They say there's "nothing newsworthy to report at this time" but haven't rule out further such meetings.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Kevin Kalkoven had a further meeting with Tony George in New York last week.

They say there's "nothing newsworthy to report at this time" but haven't rule out further such meetings.

Yep, but I still can't see a merge happening in the next few years, both series want to go their seperate ways, although the IRL is getting more like Champ Car, well the old days anyway.
But at least talks are happening.

[rustyfan]

Saw this in an Indy report and figured I might as well post it - said by Bourdais at Indy:

“I’m definitely one of the guys who thinks it would be better if there was only one (sanctioning body). It’s not done yet, but we’ll see what happens. It seems very important that we stop the controversy about Champ Car vs. the IRL and all of that. We all want to see the same thing. It’s just a matter of trying to find a way to make it happen.”

[jock25]

It is so frustrating knowing that fans, drivers, and pretty much most of the teams want the same thing. I know it has been said before that there are issues over philosophy and direction etc but IMHO both sides hide behind 'ideological differences' when it is all about ego and power, plain and simple. Both sides don't want to be perceived to have been the one that 'lost' or 'gave in'.

I would probably applaud the side that 'gave in' for being the bigger party and potentially making an enormous sacrifice for the good of a crumbling sport.

[rush1]

I won't comment, though I have a lot of opinions on the subject.

I think its pretty interesting however.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/17068/

[infoxicated]

Dark days ahead unless this cold war comes to an end.

[Kicking-back]

Hopefully sense will prevail

[GP Racer]

I was under the impression that the IRL had an engine program ready to go for 07, but this statement leads me to believe that they may not -

"I'm afraid we'll be the only engine manufacturer involved in this thing by 2007," said Clarke. "And that's not what Honda wants. We want competition."

Could the delay in announcing the new engine program, which was expected at Indy this month, be because of this new Honda effort to reunify?

[jock25]

I would think that any manufacturer-led efforts to unify could perhaps be what is needed to reach a critcal mass on the issue. We are now almost at the stage where teams, drivers, fans, open-wheel legends and potentially engine manufacturers are all saying "enough is enough - time to kiss and make up".

Honda clearly have a lot of leverage - losing them plus Toyota and Chevy will set the IRL back several years if only because of the massive financial implications for teams and marketing of the series (directly and indirectly). And at the end of the day, TG is a businessman and Honda's comments from a business perspective should at least be giving him cause for concern

I hope this is the turning point, for the good of Indycar racing - was just thinking there how good it would be to say "indycar" racing and mean one championship, one field of cars, and one bumper Indy 500 field!!!

[mountainstar]

Two points from the article:

"During the past decade, Bobby Rahal, Barry Green, Derrick Walker, Roger Penske, Gerald Forsythe, Mario Andretti and Kalkhoven have tried, and failed, to convince IRL founder Tony George that unification is the only salvation for open wheel racing in this country."

TG has always blocked any reasonable attempts to unify.

"It's hard to react to that because I haven't talked with Robert, I guess he's talked with Brian (Barnhart), but I can't comment because I don't know what he's proposing," said George.

He holds the strings, yet always claims ignorance anytime unification comes up.

The key is TG. Until he compromises, absolutely nothing is going to happen.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The key is TG. Until he compromises, absolutely nothing is going to happen.

I think TG wants to make sure he doesn't start hearing things like what the CART head-honchos spit out in the mid 90's, that the Indy 500 "is just another race" etc.

Remember that it was what TG felt like a threat to the Indy 500 which lead to his ill-considered demand for control, which in turn lead to the split.

So while TG is an important piece of the puzzle, I personally think the key is the Indy 500, whether the Champ Car diehards (the newer ones in particular who don't care to appreciate the history of the event) like it or not.

[jock25]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

So while TG is an important piece of the puzzle, I personally think the key is the Indy 500, whether the Champ Car diehards (the newer ones in particular who don't care to appreciate the history of the event) like it or not.

I'm a little confused...if the 500 is the key then by default is TG not the keeper of the key and hence we are back to square one...whether Tony wants to play ball or not?

The greatest irony (and tragedy) IMHO is that TG may well end up ruining the 500 to the point where the "just another race" comments become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if he continues to follow this path.

If he GENUINELY cared about the 500 he would look at a "bump day" that completely lacks bumps and see that there is something seriously wrong. Indy is on it's way to becoming "just another race" in the sense that like all the other races it struggles for media coverage, spectator attendance outside of race day, sponsorship, entrants, and big juicy TV deals.

[GP Racer]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Two points from the article:

"During the past decade, Bobby Rahal, Barry Green, Derrick Walker, Roger Penske, Gerald Forsythe, Mario Andretti and Kalkhoven have tried, and failed, to convince IRL founder Tony George that unification is the only salvation for open wheel racing in this country."

There are many of us out here that don't believe that unification is the only salvation for open wheel racing, and here's my problem with it...

1- A unified series will be heavy on road and street courses and light on ovals. Look at those names above, there all road course guys, and they will be the players in a new series. Why would an IRL fan be for this? This leads to problem two.

2 - There will be little room for American drivers in this new series, which is truly the key to open wheel success again. A new series will certainly have a bigger field of cars, but it will just be a bigger field of unknowns, and fans here will continue not caring.

3 - Races in China, S Korea, and TimBukTu will not excite anyone. This series needs to be aimed at American audiences, and that means staying at home and doing the hard work of building your fan base again. Is Mr. Wonderful, Kevin Kalkhoven willing to compromise on that follie?

The only thing I can see coming from reunification will be a few new teams, a few more unknown pay drivers, and maybe a few new fans...

[mac]

Originally Posted by GP Racer

1- A unified series will be heavy on road and street courses and light on ovals. Look at those names above, there all road course guys, and they will be the players in a new series.

Not necessarily. It is part of a compromise. To get to a point where both "sides" are relatively happy with the configuration of a championship. There are plenty of people involved in OW that won't allow the death of oval racing.

Surely one of the great benefits of OW racing in its most popular times was its diversity - the need to be good over a whole range of disciplines. This is an advantage over any other motor racing category.

Originally Posted by GP Racer

2 - There will be little room for American drivers in this new series, which is truly the key to open wheel success again. A new series will certainly have a bigger field of cars, but it will just be a bigger field of unknowns, and fans here will continue not caring.

What, like the IRL's current huge field of All American racers?

No matter what shape an OW series takes, in the present climate THERE ARE GOING TO BE INTERNATIONAL DRIVERS.

It is going to happen regardless of what you do. It is up to the powers-that-be to leverage this the best they can. They need to turn them into Zanardis and Castroneves'.

The only way to get more Americans involved is to develop more quality talent and get them to stay in OW somehow - but the threat of OS drivers is always going to be there and short of mandating a certain number of US drivers, not a lot can be done except to deal with it.

Originally Posted by GP Racer

3 - Races in China, S Korea, and TimBukTu will not excite anyone. This series needs to be aimed at American audiences, and that means staying at home and doing the hard work of building your fan base again.

I don't have a problem with a series trying to expand overseas, however the immediate future for OW should be strengthening its base and the most important events within that base.

Sure, try OS ..... but wait until the base product is functioning well. And then possibly ADD them to the schedule without removing elements from the base which has been set.

Originally Posted by GP Racer

The only thing I can see coming from reunification will be a few new teams, a few more unknown pay drivers, and maybe a few new fans...

Well, the majority of people within OW as well as outsiders looking in disagree with you - as do I.

I think reunification will excite sponsors, teams, drivers, fans, the media and (probably most importantly) the casual fans and former fans of OW racing. I don't know how you could not be excited!

[jock25]

Spot on Mac!

A push from a major manufacturer and effectively an 'investor' in one of the series' is the one thing that has been lacking in an unification talks to date. I do believe that at least from a commercial perspective, it has to make TG sit up and take notice.

A single series (including Indy) is the only way to start making inroads on Nascar. As Mac pointed out the key is to attract the casual fans. The success of basketball or football in the US or soccer in Europe is the floating fans who watch sports on tv, attend one or two events/races and buy a bit of merchandise. The IRL and CC are surviving on people like us whilst Nascar and F1 suck up the rest of the population.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by jock25

I'm a little confused...if the 500 is the key then by default is TG not the keeper of the key and hence we are back to square one...whether Tony wants to play ball or not?

What I mean is that TG probably considers the Indy 500 more important than himself. Offer him a huge sum of money at the condition that he agrees to lessen the Indy 500 to a one-weekend everyday race and I can guarantee that he will remain extremely opposed, but enter discussions by stating right away that the Month of May is to be intact in its current form and I think he would at least be a bit more prepared to listen.

That is why the Indy 500 is the key when it comes to making TG listen.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by jock25

If he GENUINELY cared about the 500 he would look at a "bump day" that completely lacks bumps and see that there is something seriously wrong. Indy is on it's way to becoming "just another race" in the sense that like all the other races it struggles for media coverage, spectator attendance outside of race day, sponsorship, entrants, and big juicy TV deals.

The Indy 500 will always be the Indy 500, but are you actually saying it should defy the less-than-stellar global economic climate that we currently have? Not even Formula 1 is super-healthy when it comes to sponsorships & entrants these days.

We did get 33 starters at Indy though, and we did get a bump. As for the media coverage, I have to say Indy has been getting a lot of attention these past few weeks.