[Driver] Vettel didn't deserve to win the championship - Discuss

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Then change the title or close the thread.

Why? It's provoked a good debate.

[gert]

Of course he is a deserving champion. Nobody becomes a champion just by luck.
He collected the most points, so he must have done some things rights (and more so than the others)

To be honest he was the one I least wanted to take the title as there are a few things I don't like about him and his surroundings (esp. H. Marko).
But my personal preference doesn't mean he doesn't deserve what he got.

[Woolley]

For some reason I can't take to Vettel. However, he had his battles on track. There were a few incidents, sure, but no shennanigans. No dodgy tactics, no team order debacles, nothing really controversial. He got the most points over the season from his driving on track, nothing more. In my book that makes him deserving of the title. I don't have to like him much to admire what he's done in an extremely competitive season. So what if he only led the championship at the end of the last race? It's the only time that it matters.

[SennaTheGreat]

Why do people keep banging on about SV's Pole Positions? It's what matters on a sunday that counts, for sure, pole helps but race day is when you pick points up. If it went on poles surely Senna would have stood a great chance in 86 in the Lotus? 8 poles from 16 races i believe???

[awrb]

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

Why do people keep banging on about SV's Pole Positions? It's what matters on a sunday that counts, for sure, pole helps but race day is when you pick points up. If it went on poles surely Senna would have stood a great chance in 86 in the Lotus? 8 poles from 16 races i believe???

Well, if pole positions don't count neither do wins. Points are what counts, so by that logic, as many have already said, there should be no doubt over who is a deserving champion.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

Why do people keep banging on about SV's Pole Positions? It's what matters on a sunday that counts, for sure, pole helps but race day is when you pick points up. If it went on poles surely Senna would have stood a great chance in 86 in the Lotus? 8 poles from 16 races i believe???

You have sort of defeated your own argument there though. If what matters is what happens on Sunday, and the points picked up, surely that demonstrates Vettel did what matters to be the deserving champion.

[Jaguarman1]

Surely because if you can consistently outqualify your rivals by some margin, you already have a mental advantage come Sunday morning?
I'm a Ferrari fan and always will be. Personally I wanted Alonso to win or Webber (always had a soft spot for him after Le Mans) but there is absolutely no denying that Vettel is enormously quick and to my mind, got the job done today. Yes he made mistakes but so did everyone else:
Webber- Korea (and Singapore with Lewis)
Alonso - Monaco quali (wrecking his #1 car) and Spa
Hamilton - Monza (and Singapore with Webber)
Button: consistently poor quali putting him on the back foot.

Therefore, any of the above could have won it and arguably deserved it. Fair play to Vettel and RBR, I really thought they'd blow it but they didn't and ran out deserving champions of both titles.

[GTRMagic]

Mr Vettel finished the season with the most points. On that basis, it makes him the F1 World Driver's Champion, deserving by finishing with more points than the other blokes.

More interesting question...

So will Mr Vettel be able to back it up next season? The hunger to achieve the championship is often the thing that forces that extra 'edge' out of a driver, but once it is achieved, will the fire burn as brightly?

[RichardRenes]

He has the most points at the end of the season. He therefor is the well deserved new F1 champion. You may like that or not, and you may like him or not, but the championship simply is well deserved in my opinion.

If it was based on likeability, it would be Rubens Barrichello

[willb]

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

Why Hans, well the Turkish Incident, The Belgium Incident, and never at one point throughout this season has he led the title race. Until now. I agree with who ever finishes with most points but he just looked shockin this season to last.

i guess you could say the same thing about Kimi Raikonen's title then. He never led the championship until the final race either.

[Knowlesy]

He of course deserves it as he got most points. Of the four contenders he impressed the least overall for me, but he has the title and you can't remove that.

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by willb

i guess you could say the same thing about Kimi Raikonen's title then. He never led the championship until the final race either.

Not sure that is right? Kimi won the first round in Aus and i think finished a couple of podiums to back it up. He was obviously leading after Australia and I think for the few GPs after.

As for Vettel being deserving, he of course is. I thought mid season Webber was digging deep and finding another level of speed. It now appears as thoguh Vettel spent a few rounds in the wilderness but soon found his way again

[Knowlesy]

Kimi led after Australia and lost it immediately in Malaysia. He only regained it in Brazil.

[ptclaus98]

Anyone else think it's ironic that SennaTheGreat made this thread when Senna himself won a championship despite not scoring the most points over the balance of a season?

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

Why do people keep banging on about SV's Pole Positions? It's what matters on a sunday that counts, for sure, pole helps but race day is when you pick points up. If it went on poles surely Senna would have stood a great chance in 86 in the Lotus? 8 poles from 16 races i believe???

Because, and I am not sure you will have noticed this, but if you get pole position, that means you start at the front of the grid, IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ELSE. Now, I'm pretty sure this does give you quite an advantage over the other drivers, although please correct me if I am wrong (I'm not btw). This means, and I hope you can follow me here, that in order for the pole position driver not to win, he has to be overtaken by one or more of the others cars. Now, this overtaking can be quite tricky, as has been shown many times this year, and especially by Alonso and Hamilton yesterday. So, starting in pole position does give you a huge advantage over the rest of the field. It means you were the fastest car on the track. If you then do exactly the same on race day (as I believe SV did on a number of occasions), then almost by definition, you are the driver most likely to win. It interesting, but you can be the best driver in the fastest car on the track on race day, and still come last, because you had a bad qualifying.

There, I hope I have explained that to you.

[SennaTheGreat]

I'm not doubting that Vettel is champion, he finished with most points but his 2010 season has been poor to that of 2009 i thought. that is what im trying to get at. in 2009, he drove fantastic, yes rookie mistakes, but not as many as this year.

[old man]

I do agree with JamesH and can only congratulate the winner in a fantastic season. The criticism has to be about the ability of cars to run close enough to overtake without taking big risks. Many of the mistakes made by the drivers were probably born of frustration and I was expecting accidents involving Renaults for most of the race yesterday but all the teams start with the same set of rules and to me it is amazing that they all come to a point where their lap times are within such small margins.

To have 3 teams and 4 drivers with a margin of less than one win after 19 races is amazing, now if there had just been another race!!!!!

[jab]

It's as if after Schumacher's years of domination, people have come to believe that the champion has to be flawless all year, and if he isn't, he "doesn't deserve it". We saw it with Button last year (although he really was poor at times), with Lewis the year before, and with Kimi before that

It's as if some have just forgotten, or are unwilling to accept, how good Michael Schumacher and Ferrari were. It's not that all these guys "didn't deserve the title" - it's that Michael was brilliant. He's the only driver to have been that brilliant throughout a season. He was the anomaly, not Vettel, Button, Lewis and Kimi, or any champion in history before that. To expect otherwise is unrealistic - everyone makes mistakes

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by jab

- it's that Michael was brilliant.

Schumacher was/is a brilliant driver and he'd do things in the car that would leave me dumbstruck, but this season has showed that had he not had a car that was exactly to his liking he wouldn't have achieved the success that he did!

Anyway, back on topic......

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Because, and I am not sure you will have noticed this, but if you get pole position, that means you start at the front of the grid, IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ELSE. Now, I'm pretty sure this does give you quite an advantage over the other drivers, although please correct me if I am wrong (I'm not btw). This means, and I hope you can follow me here, that in order for the pole position driver not to win, he has to be overtaken by one or more of the others cars. Now, this overtaking can be quite tricky, as has been shown many times this year, and especially by Alonso and Hamilton yesterday. So, starting in pole position does give you a huge advantage over the rest of the field. It means you were the fastest car on the track. If you then do exactly the same on race day (as I believe SV did on a number of occasions), then almost by definition, you are the driver most likely to win. It interesting, but you can be the best driver in the fastest car on the track on race day, and still come last, because you had a bad qualifying.

There, I hope I have explained that to you.

I think some of us have just about grasped that but the point you seem to be missing is that with pole position so important if all other things are equal (they never are by the way) whatever speed he may show on Saturday a driver who starts 10 of the 19 races with a massive advantage and isn't in the lead going into the last race might be thought to be performing at a lower level than his rivals on race day.

[wheelie]

i dont like any of these stuck up drivers im watching it only cause of the grid girls....but i'll count Vettel as a grid girl since his celebration on radio....so who would deserve it then if not her? Oh sure anyone else....

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

whatever speed he may show on Saturday a driver who starts 10 of the 19 races with a massive advantage and isn't in the lead going into the last race might be thought to be performing at a lower level than his rivals on race day.

Maybe so but then if you look at his pole laps.....

Bahrain - Spark plug problem
Australia - Wheel problem
Britain - punctue at first corner
Hungary - drive through penalty
Korea - blown engine

Had it not have been for the blown engine in Korea, Seb would have won the last 4 races of the season.

Martin Brundle thinks the right driver won the title

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Maybe so but then if you look at his pole laps.....

Bahrain - Spark plug problem
Australia - Wheel problem
Britain - punctue at first corner
Hungary - drive through penalty
Korea - blown engine

Had it not have been for the blown engine in Korea, Seb would have won the last 4 races of the season.

Martin Brundle thinks the right driver won the title

Thank you for quoting a part of my post out of context in an effort to make me seem as arrogant as some others. Perhaps you didn't realise I was trying to highlight the fact that this is a discussion and that there are other points of view as valid as yours and also that belittling those who may hold a different view to yours is neither good manners nor likely to make ten-tenths a nicer place to play for any of us. Sometimes people are just playing Devil's advocate.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Thank you for quoting a part of my post out of context in an effort to make me seem as arrogant as some others.

Errr, i wasn't trying to make you out to be arrogant at all, that thought never crossed my mind I was merely stating that there were reasons why Vettel, dispite being fastest on saturday couldn't convert it on sunday.

I'm sorry if you thought i was trying to make you seem arrogant, i wasn't, maybe you need to chill out a bit.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Errr, i wasn't trying to make you out to be arrogant at all, that thought never crossed my mind I was merely stating that there were reasons why Vettel, dispite being fastest on saturday couldn't convert it on sunday.

I'm sorry if you thought i was trying to make you seem arrogant, i wasn't, maybe you need to chill out a bit.

I'm pretty chilled already and I'm not after a slanging match but I respectfully suggest that if you don't want to put people's backs up you don't start and end posts like this:

Because, and I am not sure you will have noticed this

.....

There, I hope I have explained that to you.

Whatever your intention (humour maybe?) it suggests a combination of condescension, arrogance and sarcasm that is not pretty. And my (perhaps OTT post) was a reaction to that.