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Old 9 Jul 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3750045)   #326
flagwaver
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flagwaver should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The point you aren't grasping is there is not a ban on spectators. Some landowners have deemed their events, non-spectator. As I have already said all the events I have attended this year have had spectators at. Some stages have been none spectator but that has been due more to do with PR issues and wildlife issues.

Just "love" your "journalistic" view of marshals. Care to run a poll on whether Marshals or spectators are more important to rallying in the UK at present?
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Old 9 Jul 2017, 23:27 (Ref:3750059)   #327
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Insurance is the main reason why speccys are not allowed on most stages, and health and safety.

Why bother when you have to try and look after them. You cant charge as that entails even more hassle and legislation.

I'm not going to get into an argument about the merits of marshals and speccys. As we are from different sides of the divide.

But of course marshals are more important. If that makes you feel important and better great. That would be typical of some marshals I have encountered.

But where are the future drivers, co drivers, marshals, organisers going to come from if no-on can attend the majority of LOCAL events.

Poland will have got thousands of people interested in rallying. Belgium has more of it now than ever. As does France. Why, coz fans can watch, it is policed, looked after and they can watch. Praps not that well in Eastern Europe, but some of that is third world so what can you do.

I would rather see rallying die than have to put up with closed events and circuit based rallies. If that is to be the only way it survives, then for fans like me it is already dead.
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Old 10 Jul 2017, 11:29 (Ref:3750132)   #328
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leonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridleonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think the reality is that, in the world we live in, if a spectator does something stupid and gets himself killed, the organisers are to blame - and they face the police inquiries and insurance claims. It is dumb as it means there is no longer any notion of personal responsibility in law but that is just how it is. So I do have some sympathy with organisers who are a little over-cautious.

The trouble is the MSA and various BRC organisers have allowed the sport to decline for years. What other sport has cancelled its main championship because it was in such steep decline? Can you imagine Wimbledon or the Premier League being cancelled for the same reason? For years organisers relied on Colin and Richard to carry the sport and when they both died so tragically, rallying as a spectator sport fell off a cliff.

It is not much better if you are a competitor. I'm only an occasional clubman but even the costs of single venue events are now becoming very steep indeed. Despite all the cash the MSA rakes in and the money in the sport, none of it seems to come back to local motor clubs to support the grass roots.

Fortunately rallying is still very strong in mainland Europe - I tend to watch more events overseas nowadays. Such are the price of passes on Wales Rally GB, we can fly to Italy, have a short holiday, watch an outstanding rally all for about the same price as watching our own home event.

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Old 10 Jul 2017, 12:07 (Ref:3750143)   #329
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I'm only an occasional clubman but even the costs of single venue events are now becoming very steep indeed. Despite all the cash the MSA rakes in and the money in the sport, none of it seems to come back to local motor clubs to support the grass roots.
I'm in the same situation - we compete a few times a year as and when finances allow. Rules like 5 year lifing of seats and harnesses doesn't help and in reality have very little (if any) impact on safety.

Regarding the MSA - I couldn't agree more. The MSA appears only to care about the 'elite' and their various driver programs. There's very little sign of the MSA doing anything to help grass roots competition. The MSA sent around a survey a while back and I gave them both barrels in my responses - as ever though I doubt it'll make any difference, they seem quite happy sitting in their ivory tower.
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Old 10 Jul 2017, 12:21 (Ref:3750150)   #330
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
This is all part of the point I am trying to make.

The MSA are supposed to be the people who run our sport, come up with ideas, legislate and encourage people to take part.

ALL they want is people to marshal, organise etc. There are no decent initiatives to get people racing, or no effort WHATSOEVER to make racing cheaper, only to make it ever more expensive.

AS for spectators, to the MSA we don't exist and why should we, they make nothing out of spectators. That is for the circuits.

But a lot of spectators are potential competitors, sponsors, team members and the MSA consider them not one jot.

They are the people that have to encourage w new breed of competitor, make it easy for people to compete, not offer them crap like auto solo. People want the chance to compete, they can appreciate it costs a bit, but doe it have to mean courses, huge entry fees etc.

There must be solutions and it ought to be coming from them
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Old 10 Jul 2017, 18:32 (Ref:3750232)   #331
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Poland should make a Nürburgring-style rallycross circuit. They would fill it with fans, but behind guardrails and fences.
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Old 13 Jul 2017, 10:45 (Ref:3750893)   #332
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I'm not sure what the MSA actually do - apart from collecting license fees, etc

As the governing body for 4 wheeled motorsport in the UK, they could/ should be doing much more. They are poor; reactive rather than proactive - and seemingly in a timewarp.
Closed roads motorsport should have been brought in decades ago - MSA should have been banging the drum far more loudly. They did very little if they were really serious about it.
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Old 26 Jul 2017, 20:45 (Ref:3754570)   #333
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I see Citroen are drafting in Sebastien Loeb to try and sort the car out now - he's doing a tarmac test for them.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 07:26 (Ref:3754617)   #334
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Seb's clearly got the skills to help them sort it out.

Meeke's saying he doesn't feel he's getting support from Citroen. No surprises there, they've hardly been helpful to him
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 19:11 (Ref:3754832)   #335
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Citroën turned their back on Loeb. They didn't want to enter a third car for him during their last season in WTCC and didn't want his help when developing the C3, despite that he offered and also wanted to be a part of it. Thus, he ended up with Peugeot.

And now Citroën wants his help ...
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 10:43 (Ref:3755040)   #336
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And Finland is well and truly underway - Ogier has already binned it, Tanak has had problems and it's a Toyota 1-2! The Hyundais are nowhere, Breen is lead Citroen - lively start!
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 10:47 (Ref:3755043)   #337
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The Hyundais have looked unsettled over the jumps.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 10:54 (Ref:3755047)   #338
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The Hyundais have looked unsettled over the jumps.
Not ideal in Finland!
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 11:37 (Ref:3755057)   #339
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Meeke's saying he doesn't feel he's getting support from Citroen. No surprises there, they've hardly been helpful to him
Sure McRae was saying the same thing about Citroen over a decade ago...

...pretty eventful start to Finland: several cars in the scenery already!
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Old 30 Jul 2017, 21:19 (Ref:3756185)   #340
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Sisu!

I've been looking forward to this one all year and it hasn't disappointed! What a rally, so many talking points, I'm not sure where to start.

Lappi is so darn fast but Suninen is very special indeed; their personas couldn't be more different! Teemu's pace boggles the mind, I believe this was his second ever rally in the WRC car.

Evans deserves a mentions too, what a drive! Fantastic! Special mention to Breen too for extracting some speed out of that C3 and keeping it on the road; no mean feat.

Seems the Hyundai doesn't like surfaces with little grip, Neuville may well rue this weekend. Paddon's awful season continues, the poor lad. Meeke really struggled unfortunately.

Some of the mid-air attitudes of the cars were a bit scary.
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Old 30 Jul 2017, 21:46 (Ref:3756195)   #341
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The Finnish rally has a bright future with Lappi and Suninen.

1. BEL Thierry Neuville (Hyundai), 160
2. FRA Sébastien Ogier (Ford), 160
3. EST Ott Tänak (Ford), 119
4. FIN Jari-Matti Latvala (Toyota), 114
5. ESP Dani Sordo (Hyundai), 84
6. GBR Elfyn Evans (Ford), 79
7. IRL Craig Breen (Citroën), 53
8. NZL Hayden Paddon (Hyundai), 51
9. FIN Juho Hänninen (Toyota), 46
10. FIN Esapekka Lappi (Toyota), 45
11. GBR Kris Meeke (Citroën), 31
12. GBR Teemu Suninen (Ford), 25
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 10:44 (Ref:3756389)   #342
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I've been looking forward to this one all year and it hasn't disappointed!
Agreed - I haven't caught up on all of the coverage yet but what I've seen has been great (busy weekend - WRC, Spa24, F1 and BTCC!)

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Lappi is so darn fast but Suninen is very special indeed; their personas couldn't be more different! Teemu's pace boggles the mind, I believe this was his second ever rally in the WRC car.
The young guns coming through really look the part don't they - I've been really impressed with them.

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Evans deserves a mentions too, what a drive! Fantastic! Special mention to Breen too for extracting some speed out of that C3 and keeping it on the road; no mean feat.
They both did well - Breen seems to be the most consistent of the Citroen drivers but that car still looks like a real handfull.

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Seems the Hyundai doesn't like surfaces with little grip,
It seemed to be struggling over the jumps and bumps - and that means that Finland was always going to be a problem.

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Some of the mid-air attitudes of the cars were a bit scary.
Yep - some of them were very sideways in the air - and again some of the spectators looked a bit vulnerable should something go wrong.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 20:58 (Ref:3756789)   #343
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Another new winner, getting plenty of them these days. Rare mistake by Ogier, could his reign be coming to an end?
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Old 17 Aug 2017, 19:02 (Ref:3760014)   #344
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So Germany is underway and Meeke has binned it already he's shot to bits at the moment isn't he?

Interestingly Kopecky was quickest on SS1 in an R5 Fiesta - beating the WRC machines - impressive!
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Old 18 Aug 2017, 09:14 (Ref:3760119)   #345
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So Germany is underway and Meeke has binned it already he's shot to bits at the moment isn't he?
Yeah, absolutely awful way to start the rally. I saw a replay clip of the crash being shared on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/irishwhale/...3526119616408/

Given that it's Meeke perhaps I am trying to see something that isn't there, but seems like there is a lot of movement on the front wheel just before the crash?
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Old 18 Aug 2017, 13:37 (Ref:3760162)   #346
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Latvala with engine trouble again, what is it? A 3rd time?
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Old 18 Aug 2017, 15:00 (Ref:3760183)   #347
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Latvala with engine trouble again, what is it? A 3rd time?
The only thing in the car supplied by TMG...
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Old 19 Aug 2017, 22:29 (Ref:3760464)   #348
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Kris Meeke should have switched to rallycross a long time ago.
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 08:38 (Ref:3760697)   #349
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Fantastic drive from Tanak again, even if he doesn't get any closer to the title I still think he has still been one of the highlights of the 2017 season.

Not a good weekend for Neuville, that error has handed Ogier a slender margin again. That said I wouldn't begrudge Ogier winning the title, in fact it would massively elevate him in my opinion if he won the title in something other than a Polo. It would also be a long-deserved reward for Malcolm Wilson and M-Sport.

Looking forward to Catalunya!
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 10:56 (Ref:3760730)   #350
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Fantastic drive from Tanak again, even if he doesn't get any closer to the title I still think he has still been one of the highlights of the 2017 season.

Not a good weekend for Neuville, that error has handed Ogier a slender margin again. That said I wouldn't begrudge Ogier winning the title, in fact it would massively elevate him in my opinion if he won the title in something other than a Polo. It would also be a long-deserved reward for Malcolm Wilson and M-Sport.

Looking forward to Catalunya!
Agree with all of that Tanak has shown promise in the past but this year he's really delivered. It would be great for M-Sport if they could grab a title, they've soldiered on since Ford pulled the plug and to be winning events is a great reward, a title would be superb (and as you say would also help cement Ogiers position as a 'great' - it was the one criticism that could be levelled at Loeb).

It still looks like each of the cars are pretty well matched - even the Citroen looked to have some pace in Mikklesens hands. Surely he's in for a full time drive there next season?
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