Rallying or Rallycross ?

[markk]

Bit of a contaversial post ( especially for my 1st ) but ive got a small problem (namely the MSA) where it looks like the new car im about to have built wont be eligable for rallying when its finished

now im not committed to it just yet so plans can change, but as the msa seam to be set against me rallying it one day, then its ok the next im not prepared to spend 8k having the shell built for it not to suit my discipline.

this is where rallycross may be of use to me ive never been to a rallycross event but have always loved the raw power and the mix of tar and gravel.

ive been rallying for nye on 8 years, having sold my car to have a new one built (4wd turbo focus).

so two questions really -

A, would there be a class to accept the car i want to have built ?

b, after been into tar and gravel rallying would i like rallycross ?

and if anyone can give me a rough cost on a rallycross event that would be great

(does that make three questions ?

cheers

p.s great site !!

[silver bullet]

Welcome to Tenth's Mark

Yes there is a class that would suit a 4WD turbo Focus. In fact there are already one or two competeing
The thing is, the specs are different so it would be better if you built your car to a rallycross spec now rather than convert it from a rally one. Someone with more technical knowlage would be able to advise on the differences, but I suppose the main one would be weight.

As long as you don't mind other cars around you, I think you would love rallycross. Most converts do.
The main difference you will find is there is a bit less time in the car. Also when you are racing it's flat out from the word go. It's not like a rally where you can feel your way in for the first couple of stages, and maybe save the car a bit. It's a sprint not an endurance.

Costs vary greatly. things like tyres, panels, spares, entry fees, and transportation all have to be taken into consideration.
A Stockhatch budget will probably average out at between three & five hundred punds a meeting. Whereas a top Supercar budget could quite easily go into the thousands.
It all depends what events you want to do, and what standard you want to compete at.

[StockHatch782]

Welcome to the forum, Markk.

Can you give a more detailed idea of the spec of your proposed car? If it's outlawed under K.37 (I assume that's what you're talking about), there's a possibility it might not be allowed in rallycross either, if you've moved the bulkhead or changed the engine location, for example.

Someone on here will most likely be able to send you a copy of this year's supercar regulations (I might even have some myself), and you'll be able to decide whether you want to build the car as an all-out rallycross car or not.

As to whether it's a good sport, just look at the grins as we all get out of our cars! It's very different to rallying, but in many ways you get more excitement and action, more public interest for sponsors etc., and there's less chance of writing your car off if you bin it.

Oh, and no co-driver yakking in your ear, either!

[sjones]

If money is no worry then a Division 1 car is the way to go. What's better then heading into, for example, Crofts first corner at 120mph. If it doesn't seem for you then ditch the 4WD and make it 2WD and run with the supermods. Rallycars are usually limited to about 300bhp depending on rules but in division 1 we're talking about 500bhp to even 600bhp plus. Although in my opinion, gearbox is everything.

[markk]

Cheers guys and thanks for the welcome

the car i 'was' going to have built for rallying looks like it could have difficulties under K37 yes,

basically mk1 focus shell, fitted with a 4wd gearbox tunnel, engine from transverse to inline and full escort group a/wrc style running gear.
there would be slight bulkhead mods just to allow the tunnel to accept the gearbox, but not actually moving it complete.
i agree about the gearbox and ratios make the car - i have always run decent box's and ratios's

the hp is not a problem to run at 500 or so, i think i need to get to some events

ive done trackdays and rallys at tracks and even run on the old rallycross circuit at anglesey (if that counts as rallycross?)

i just dont want to throw a load of cash at a car conversion for it to be outlawed almost if not immediatley.

cheers

mark

[BertMk2]

Which part of the K37 mods are you going to fall foul of?

If you're going to go down the rallycross route then the car will need to go on a bit of a diet. If you're happy forking out the pennies to run 500bhp with a decent gearbox then running in supercar/division1 (essentially the same thing - just depends which organising body you're running under).

Another alternative would be to buy a rallycross car ready to go - for the price of building a car from scratch you could get a decent car ready built - if you're not committed to anything yet with your planned car then this may be your best option?

[sjones]

I think we should convince him to buy the ex Lars Larson Skoda :P it'd be good to see that over here on British shores. I don't know if Magnus Ericsson still has his Skoda shell with diffs and gearbox for sale.

[markk]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Which part of the K37 mods are you going to fall foul of?

If you're going to go down the rallycross route then the car will need to go on a bit of a diet. If you're happy forking out the pennies to run 500bhp with a decent gearbox then running in supercar/division1 (essentially the same thing - just depends which organising body you're running under).

Another alternative would be to buy a rallycross car ready to go - for the price of building a car from scratch you could get a decent car ready built - if you're not committed to anything yet with your planned car then this may be your best option?

it looks like the bulkhead mods for the tunnel and the rear strut towers from what i can see, plus this type of build (even if i stuck to the current rules) people have said would be outlawed by 2012 ?

as for buying a car, yes is always the cheapest option, but, theres nothing better than doing well in a home built car on a considerably smaller budget than the top runners, plus i like building cars !!

[M.Lowe]

Nice to see you made it here Mark, Like I said on the other place this crazy bunch will help you no end with info and such

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by markk

it looks like the bulkhead mods for the tunnel and the rear strut towers from what i can see, plus this type of build (even if i stuck to the current rules) people have said would be outlawed by 2012 ?

I think this is part of the problem with the K37 modifications - they're very vague, you can make localised modifications to tunnels, bulkheads etc but not "substantial" modifications. All very subjective and open to interpretation. As far as I've understood it things like RWD conversions for Fiestas would still be ok, spacframed rear ends are out though. It may be worth getting hold of a clued up scrutineer and going through things with them (if you've got one local that's willing to help).

Originally Posted by markk

as for buying a car, yes is always the cheapest option, but, theres nothing better than doing well in a home built car on a considerably smaller budget than the top runners, plus i like building cars !!

If you're into building your own car then go for it - there is definitely a sense of satisfaction to be gained from competing in a car you've put together.

It may be worth a trip to the London Motorsport show - that way you can speak directly to the MSA about your proposed car and K37. There's also the live rallycross too so you can have a look at that while you're there. There is a good selection of cars entered in Div1 from the 'clubbie' spec to top spec cars so you should be able to judge where abouts you think your car would fit in.

[markk]

Originally Posted by M.Lowe

Nice to see you made it here Mark, Like I said on the other place this crazy bunch will help you no end with info and such

Hi yes made it here

had a few good chats with some of the guys on here - very helpful

[markk]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I think this is part of the problem with the K37 modifications - they're very vague, you can make localised modifications to tunnels, bulkheads etc but not "substantial" modifications. All very subjective and open to interpretation. As far as I've understood it things like RWD conversions for Fiestas would still be ok, spacframed rear ends are out though. It may be worth getting hold of a clued up scrutineer and going through things with them (if you've got one local that's willing to help).



If you're into building your own car then go for it - there is definitely a sense of satisfaction to be gained from competing in a car you've put together.

It may be worth a trip to the London Motorsport show - that way you can speak directly to the MSA about your proposed car and K37. There's also the live rallycross too so you can have a look at that while you're there. There is a good selection of cars entered in Div1 from the 'clubbie' spec to top spec cars so you should be able to judge where abouts you think your car would fit in.

yes not a bad a idea, its the autosport show in birmingha, in jan - might have to go and see them face to face !

cheers

[sjones]

I think he meant the one in december.

http://www.londonmasters.co.uk/

That's the website for the Live demonstration.

[markk]

Bugger - rallying on the saturday in grizedale forrest then servicing the sunday at weeton camp - dam !