[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[templer]

https://twitter.com/PorscheRaces/media

Porsche has revealed some pics of their 919 Hybrid 2015 testing at Bahrain

[TF110]

New naca ducts on the forward portion of the roof. Help with cooling?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by TF110

New naca ducts on the forward portion of the roof. Help with cooling?

Oh, I like that a lot better. Hopefully their livery will be better too!

I'm not sure what the nacas are for but they were integrated into the single rooftop scoop last year.

[chernaudi]

Porsche already had one fitted on one spec of their front windshield in 2014, there's just two now and are fitted symmetrically across the car's centerline. Don't know if they're driver or hybrid system cooling, though.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Porsche already had one fitted on one spec of their front windshield in 2014, there's just two now and are fitted symmetrically across the car's centerline. Don't know if they're driver or hybrid system cooling, though.

Most likely cockpit cooling as in 2014:

[chernaudi]

Porsche are also running a split exhaust (like the EBD Audi R18) with periscope outlets like the Toyota TS030/TS040.

[templer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Porsche are also running a split exhaust (like the EBD Audi R18) with periscope outlets like the Toyota TS030/TS040.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Porsche are also running a split exhaust (like the EBD Audi R18) with periscope outlets like the Toyota TS030/TS040.

Originally Posted by templer

Which may imply some changes in the configuration of the ERS-H ?

[templer]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Which may imply some changes in the configuration of the ERS-H ?

Good question, but would say the MGU-H will be the same layout. I have read somewhere that a twin turbo layout did not work with a MGU-H system. So I think they have switched the exhaust layout to a 1 in 2 pipe system after the turbo. Maybe to have the same flow conditions on each side of the fin.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by templer

Good question, but would say the MGU-H will be the same layout. I have read somewhere that a twin turbo layout did not work with a MGU-H system. So I think they have switched the exhaust layout to a 1 in 2 pipe system after the turbo. Maybe to have the same flow conditions on each side of the fin.

Could they be using two entirely separate exhaust systems each with its own ERS-H turbine ? Would this still be considered as one and a same ERSA ? I would have to check more carefully, but I believe that it would, as both systems would still be associated to one and a same car sub-assembly, namely the engine exhaust.

[templer]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Could they be using two entirely separate exhaust systems each with its own ERS-H turbine ? Would this still be considered as one and a same ERSA ? I would have to check more carefully, but I believe that it would, as both systems would still be associated to one and a same car sub-assembly, namely the engine exhaust.

Maybe, if yes it would be a very clever solution as they will have in fact three hybrid systems. Would make sense as an additional ERS-H turbine would not add to much weight and would help to get up to 8MJ. The question is if these two turbines can be described as one MGU-H system?

I think I have so ask somebody at Porsche if they will release something on the ERS-H system

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by templer

Maybe, if yes it would be a very clever solution as they will have in fact three hybrid systems. Would make sense as an additional ERS-H turbine would not add to much weight and would help to get up to 8MJ. The question is if these two turbines can be described as one MGU-H system?

I think I have so ask somebody at Porsche if they will release something on the ERS-H system

Two ERS-H turbines yes (each fed with the exhaust gases coming from on cylinder bank). So not necessarily more capacity to recover energy compared to a single "bigger" turbine, but smaller turbines that are possibly easier to package on either side of the engine.

Note that these ERS-H turbines would not count as MGUs since they are not used to release any energy. Just two separate electrical machines to harvest energy and being associated to one and same car sub-assembly, i.e. the engine exhaust, therefore one and a same Energy Recovery System Assembly (ERSA) as per Article 1.20.

Still two ERSAs as such (ERSA-K on the front drive train + ERSA-H on the engine exhaust).

This obviously assuming that we are indeed talking about a bi-turbo configuration. These might as well be just split exhausts as mentioned by chernaudi.

[cokata]

Good. It was very strange to see a Vee engine with a single exhaust pipe, even though it's not enforced by the rules.

[templer]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Two ERS-H turbines yes (each fed with the exhaust gases coming from on cylinder bank). So not necessarily more capacity to recover energy compared to a single "bigger" turbine, but smaller turbines that are possibly easier to package on either side of the engine.

Note that these ERS-H turbines would not count as MGUs since they are not used to release any energy. Just two separate electrical machines to harvest energy and being associated to one and same car sub-assembly, i.e. the engine exhaust, therefore one and a same Energy Recovery System Assembly (ERSA) as per Article 1.20.

Still two ERSAs as such (ERSA-K on the front drive train + ERSA-H on the engine exhaust).

This obviously assuming that we are indeed talking about a bi-turbo configuration. These might as well be just split exhausts as mentioned by chernaudi.

Sorry my mistake, Have forgotten that Porsche did not use a F1 ERS-H system which has a MGU-H. Comes a bit as I try to image how the planned ARX-04a for HPD may have looked like. And the V6 engine for this car was planned around a battery optioned MGU-K and a MGU-H together with the turbo inside the V. Have had the thoughts in my mind if a 1 in 2 pipe would make any sense to get the same airflow on each side of the fin. So mixed these two engine concepts which are not the same.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by templer

Sorry my mistake, Have forgotten that Porsche did not use a F1 ERS-H system which has a MGU-H. Comes a bit as I try to image how the planned ARX-04a for HPD may have looked like. And the V6 engine for this car was planned around a battery optioned MGU-K and a MGU-H together with the turbo inside the V. Have had the thoughts in my mind if a 1 in 2 pipe would make any sense to get the same airflow on each side of the fin. So mixed these two engine concepts which are not the same.

Actually I believe that there is no such thing like an MGU-H under the LMP1 rules, but exclusively MGU-K(s) (or simply "MGUs"). Under the LMP1 rules, an MGU is defined as a "drive machine mechanically linked to one of the drive trains", a "drive machine" being "a machine which, when connected to a shaft, increases the torque applied to this shaft". The rules further state that "for the avoidance of doubt, the engine is not an MGU". Considering further that the engine is defined as including "ancillaries, pressure charging systems and actuator systems necessary for its proper function", I would dare to say that an F1-style "MGU-H" (i.e. an electrical machine coupled to the turbine of the pressure charging system) would not be deemed to fall under the definition of MGU. Would still be considered part of an ERSA-H, but any energy release via such an electrical machine (e.g. to reduce turbo lag) would not be limited as such. This does not seem to be the most efficient way to release energy though. I therefore doubt that we will see any F1-style "MGU-H" in LMP1 as benefits are likely limited compared to other solutions. A solution like Porsche have adopted would seem to make more sense, and Audi are known to be looking at such solutions (according to Laudenbach's own admissions).

[templer]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Actually I believe that there is no such thing like an MGU-H under the LMP1 rules, but exclusively MGU-K(s) (or simply "MGUs"). Under the LMP1 rules, an MGU is defined as a "drive machine mechanically linked to one of the drive trains", a "drive machine" being "a machine which, when connected to a shaft, increases the torque applied to this shaft". The rules further state that "for the avoidance of doubt, the engine is not an MGU". Considering further that the engine is defined as including "ancillaries, pressure charging systems and actuator systems necessary for its proper function", I would dare to say that an F1-style "MGU-H" (i.e. an electrical machine coupled to the turbine of the pressure charging system) would not be deemed to fall under the definition of MGU. Would still be considered part of an ERSA-H, but any energy release via such an electrical machine (e.g. to reduce turbo lag) would not be limited as such. This does not seem to be the most efficient way to release energy though. I therefore doubt that we will see any F1-style "MGU-H" in LMP1 as benefits are likely limited compared to other solutions. A solution like Porsche have adopted would seem to make more sense, and Audi are known to be looking at such solutions (according to Laudenbach's own admissions).

THis is off-topic to the Porsche thread:

What I have managed to find out is that the planned HPD HR22T engine for the LMP1 category was a 2,2l V6 engine based on the Indycar engine. In contrast to the CAD renders which have appeared on the net , the exhaust pipes and the turbo were arranged inside the V. The engine was fitted with two ERS systems developed by Magnetti Marelli. A ERS-K system with batteries and a F1 style ERS-H system. As I haven't heard anymore on this project and the LMP1 ARX-04 is stopped as Honda did not want two different hybrid outfits in racing ( F1 with McLaren and LMP with HPD and Wirth) I don't know if the engine was fully developed. But I will try to find it out.

[wolfhound]

It would be possible to power an MGU-H with two turbo chargers.

If the MGU-H is placed transversly with a shaft coming out both ends. On each end of this shaft is a turbo charger, one for each bank of cylinders. The biggest issue might be bearing alignment but there are ways to overcome this.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by templer

THis is off-topic to the Porsche thread:

What I have managed to find out is that the planned HPD HR22T engine for the LMP1 category was a 2,2l V6 engine based on the Indycar engine. In contrast to the CAD renders which have appeared on the net , the exhaust pipes and the turbo were arranged inside the V. The engine was fitted with two ERS systems developed by Magnetti Marelli. A ERS-K system with batteries and a F1 style ERS-H system. As I haven't heard anymore on this project and the LMP1 ARX-04 is stopped as Honda did not want two different hybrid outfits in racing ( F1 with McLaren and LMP with HPD and Wirth) I don't know if the engine was fully developed. But I will try to find it out.

yes, I would love to you publish more information about the engine and project that did not happen of Honda lmp1.
Please publish it in the Acura thread.
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...02029&page=223

[Spyderman]

A nice piece on testing:https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/moder...he-919-testing

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

A nice piece on testing:https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/moder...he-919-testing

So, the new car is an evolution but everything is new.

[Spyderman]

.....Except for some components of the rear breaks.

[500]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

A nice piece on testing:https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/moder...he-919-testing

Hey Spyderman, Thanks for that link! That was a nice piece and something a little different.

[porman]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

A nice piece on testing:https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/moder...he-919-testing

Thank you for the link. Some good pictures to boot. Waiting for tomorrow's interview with Lieb.

[Spyderman]

Very interesting: http://www.endurance-info.com/en/int...he-919-hybrid/

[Gingers4Justice]

Really like the new lines on the 2015 919 and can't wait to find out what livery Porsche will roll out to spoil it.