[Driver] Susie Wolff/women competing in motorsport (Merged)

[Knowlesy]

Still, it was nice of Stirling to pesto his wisdom upon us.

[Aysedasi]

He was asked the question to generate the expected response, as Peter said.

[ottostreet]

It's all about Beitske Visser for me, I think she looks very promising. Red Bull clearly see something in her too!

[Flavio Galtieri]

All I know is it can't just be nurture.

When my daughter was born I used to buy her toy racing cars, call her "Ma petite Michelle Mouton", sit her on the sofa to watch all the Grands Prix and now I have a 27 year old who can speak French but the only horses she likes have legs.

Where did I go right?

[bella]

i think you've just proven it *is* nurture. you were trying to breed a racing driver. that always fails unless you've got a massive, well upholstered wallet

[m355y]

Problem with Susie Wolff is that she's blatantly ONLY anywhere near an F1 car because she's female, and married to someone who was high up in the team. That's it. In her case that's all it is. She's nowhere near F1 material and if we're being objective you have to look at her record up to now regardless of gender and she just doesn't cut it. People aren't stupid, they know that.

And that opens her up to all kinds of criticism from the 'women can't drive' brigade, where that's clearly not true. Look at Simona De Silvestro in Indycar, quietly looking like a genuinely promising young driver in the series. Much as Danica Patrick is no world beater, she won an Indycar race. Women are starting to break through and tht needs to keep happening to shut the Neanderthals up

The likes of Susie Wolff and Maria de Villota getting token F1 roles hinders that process, rather than helping it in my view.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I think Stirling Moss is way off the mark with the "menal aptitude" reason. Women excel in plenty of other sports that require very a tough mental aptitude. There are many reasons why we do not have women F1 drivers, but I do not think lack of mental strength is one of them.

But in this particular sport Stirling Moss has been there and done it. If anyone should know the mental strength required to be a Formula 1 winner and world champion runner up on many occasions (and to have the mental strength to know that he wasn't quite the same after his accident) then it is most certainly him.

As for Susie Wolff driving a Formula 1 car (on merit) - this surely is a joke?

[bella]

Originally Posted by morninggents

As for Susie Wolff driving a Formula 1 car (on merit) - this surely is a joke?

the chinese lad with naff all decent single seater experience in fp1 last race, or when he did a session with hrt... that's a joke.

this is just... someone else with a better career path who's been using the sim getting in the car.

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by morninggents

But in this particular sport Stirling Moss has been there and done it. If anyone should know the mental strength required to be a Formula 1 winner and world champion runner up on many occasions (and to have the mental strength to know that he wasn't quite the same after his accident) then it is most certainly him.

Yes. I agree with you on the F1 part.
But what makes him an expert on women's mental strength? Is he a psychiatrist? A neurologist? A brain surgeon?

No. He's just a sexist barbarian. Sad to see such an icon as Moss loose all his credentials by stating such a stupid neanderthal remark.

Pity.

[Paradise City]

There is no need to insult Moss. He's a fine man.

His remarks actually make me think of snooker. That's a sport which places priority on mental aptitude. It's a multinational sport with female referees; it not a male closed shop in contemporary terms. It's not a sport that places emphasis on strength. And yet women rarely if ever feature on the radar. All I can think of was that Fisher lady during the 90's. There's none today insofar as I'm aware.

[vincegail]

I think it's just a numbers game. In F1 and in snooker. In both motor racing and snooker very few women take up a steering wheel or a cue, so it is little surprising that few or none of them make to the top. Saying they are not good enough is rather silly, and in my eyes, sexist and medieval.

[chillibowl]

at the top level most sports require a great deal of mental discipline and that is certainly not a trait thats is exclusive to one gender or the other. if anything its simply just a rare trait.

[garcon]

In snooker's boom years there was a fairly healthy ladies circuit. There's no sporting reason why men and ladies couldn't compete, but when you look at the grass roots of working men's clubs and the like it becomes obvious why the sexes are separated.

Is calling Moss a neanderthal barbarian really any better than his comments? You may disagree with him but there's no need for that.

The trouble with Motorsport is the emphasis on privilege. That's no different for men or women, so it's hardly surprising that not all the women in the sport are there on merit.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by vincegail

I think it's just a numbers game. In F1 and in snooker. In both motor racing and snooker very few women take up a steering wheel or a cue, so it is little surprising that few or none of them make to the top. Saying they are not good enough is rather silly, and in my eyes, sexist and medieval.

I suspect Vince that there are an awful lot more woman who wield a cue than we might think for - certainly at a mere recreational level. So why don't we see more of those women moving into the professional game?

[vincegail]

I suspect there might be a lot more women who play some form of billiards or race cars than I thought, but the ratio is not 1:1 women:men by far. Men outnumber women by quite a large margin in both sports.

And having people like Stirling Moss putting women down doesn't help to move them up the ranks of course.

As does Susie Wolff to be honest. Having a 'chance' to reach F1 by merely being a woman and being married to a F1 mayor shareholder/team executive doesn't bode well for other women. Message to be read: f*ck your way up the ladder....

That's not the way.

In my eyes, with 50/50 men/women participating in car racing/snooker, I can't see a reason why women can't be as succesful as men. (with all other parameters being equal of course)

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by vincegail

Message to be read: f*ck your way up the ladder....

how do you know no men are doing that? its ok to sell your soul to an oil company, energy drink maker, or telecom concern but helping your wife do something she was into before you ever met her is wrong.

quite surprised by BE's comments in the article though. quite a step away from the washing machine quip a few years back.

[Knowlesy]

Am I the only one not offended by Moss' remarks? I don't think he was being nasty. Slightly misguided but I know what he is getting at.

And before I get accused of bias: I'm Spanish.

[chillibowl]

i wouldn't say im offended by it but rather just think his criticism of not being mentally tough enough actually applies to a lot more than just one gender.

no need to single out women for something that most male drivers also lack.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by garcon

In snooker's boom years there was a fairly healthy ladies circuit. There's no sporting reason why men and ladies couldn't compete, but when you look at the grass roots of working men's clubs and the like it becomes obvious why the sexes are separated.

Is calling Moss a neanderthal barbarian really any better than his comments? You may disagree with him but there's no need for that.

The trouble with Motorsport is the emphasis on privilege. That's no different for men or women, so it's hardly surprising that not all the women in the sport are there on merit.

There was a healthy ladies circuit. But women weren't debarred from the main tour where the big money lay. At a professional level there's no reason they couldn't migrate.

They discontinued the ladies tour because of a cash crisis. But snooker has gone through a mini-upswing so there's still money to be made yet not a sight or sound of any women players despite the fact there's three or four female referees.

[ensign14]

Anastasia Dobromyslova had a go at the PDC world championship but lost in the prelims.

Main problem is statistics. If a driver has a 0.1% chance of making it to F1, you're going to need 1,000 women racers to make it likely there's one good enough. And the one that demonstrably is is Danica Patrick, but she's in NASCAR.

It's not helped, as said above, by Wolff's unorthodox recruitment. Similar to Amati, who was up close and personal with Lauda before she desecrated a couple of qualifying sessions in her successful attempt to emulate Otto Stuppacher. Kind of gets in the way of the likes of Legge or Powell or Mann trying to get by on talent. "If that's the best woman driver there is, no point in looking for the second best, we'd be better off with the thousandth best man..."

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Anastasia Dobromyslova had a go at the PDC world championship but lost in the prelims.

Main problem is statistics. If a driver has a 0.1% chance of making it to F1, you're going to need 1,000 women racers to make it likely there's one good enough. And the one that demonstrably is is Danica Patrick, but she's in NASCAR.

It's not helped, as said above, by Wolff's unorthodox recruitment. Similar to Amati, who was up close and personal with Lauda before she desecrated a couple of qualifying sessions in her successful attempt to emulate Otto Stuppacher. Kind of gets in the way of the likes of Legge or Powell or Mann trying to get by on talent. "If that's the best woman driver there is, no point in looking for the second best, we'd be better off with the thousandth best man..."

I read in an authoritative magazine - it was probably Motorsport but maybe it was a long Autosport article that Briatore was her boyfriend and he was instrumental in her getting that Brabham gig. She must've been some player.

[GORDON STREETER]

I've just seen the program "Driven" on the Iplayer on her and can't form a proper opinion.
Obviously she must be pretty good to drive at that level but as the film was made by her brother it "could" be biased !
She didn't seem too bad at the Silverstone test and is undoubtedly better that some that think that they could drive one.
OK so money and contacts have played there part but anybody with half a brain would take advantage if they could.
As for Mr Moss he can say what he likes and seeing that he once tried to chat my other half up he hasn't lost all his marbles !

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by vincegail

Yes. I agree with you on the F1 part.
But what makes him an expert on women's mental strength? Is he a psychiatrist? A neurologist? A brain surgeon?

No. He's just a sexist barbarian. Sad to see such an icon as Moss loose all his credentials by stating such a stupid neanderthal remark.

Pity.

mental strength wasn't mentioned, Stirling's opinion was about aptitude. Quite different. If asked the same question as Stirling, what would be your answer?

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Anastasia Dobromyslova had a go at the PDC world championship but lost in the prelims.

Main problem is statistics. If a driver has a 0.1% chance of making it to F1, you're going to need 1,000 women racers to make it likely there's one good enough. And the one that demonstrably is is Danica Patrick, but she's in NASCAR.

It's not helped, as said above, by Wolff's unorthodox recruitment. Similar to Amati, who was up close and personal with Lauda before she desecrated a couple of qualifying sessions in her successful attempt to emulate Otto Stuppacher. Kind of gets in the way of the likes of Legge or Powell or Mann trying to get by on talent. "If that's the best woman driver there is, no point in looking for the second best, we'd be better off with the thousandth best man..."

Those are absolutely horrible examples of getting on by talent.

[Peat]

I watched bits of that program 'Driven' too. For every interesting 'behind the scenes' bit there was a cringey hollywood-esque over dramatization.

The way they made out that Susie HAD to do a 52s laptime 'to continue her journey to F1' on the Silverstone demo was laughable. SPOILER ALERT - Her final lap was a 52.3. Wow, how convenient.