|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
28 Nov 2010, 23:48 (Ref:2796959) | #1 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 751
|
What do points make....?
Due to severe boredom and a distinct unwillingness to do any housework today I spent a while reviewing the F1 stats for this year to see what difference in position (if any) the new points system had made over the previous system.......
In terms of the constructors championship, there was no difference in position at all when the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system was applied to this years results There were a few changes in the drivers championship though....... Hamilton to 3rd from 4th (100pts) Webber to 4th from 3rd (97pts) Petrov from 13th to 12th (9pts - higher courtesy of his 5th place finish in Hungary) Kobayashi from 12th to 13th (9pts) de la Rosa from 17th to 16th (2pts) Buemi from 16th to 17th= (1pt) Heidfeld from 18th to 17th= (1pt) I know what you're thinking....just how bored do you have to be to do that......but consider that last year I wasted a whole day going through the finishing positions of every session (practice 1,2 & 3, qualifying and race) to see who had been most consistent across the whole season in terms of finishing position........20pts for 1st, 19pts for 2nd etc down to 1pt for 20th, with no points being allocated for non starters, and all based on the finishing positions from the F1 website classifications.....I wanted to prove that Button (who I'm no fan of) wasn't the most consistent driver over the entire season...... Anyway, I've done it now, and I'm putting it out here to be picked at, shot down and generally ridiculed.......have fun...... Phil |
||
__________________
Give me the wisdom to know what is right, the courage to change what is wrong, and the bank balance to support me when I can't tell the difference |
29 Nov 2010, 09:11 (Ref:2797073) | #2 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
|
I've gone back one step further with just points for the first 6 finishers (10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1)
and the top 5 would have finished like this.... 1) Vettel 84 points 2) Alonso 81 points 3) Hamilton 76 points (+1 position) 4) Webber 74 points (-1 position) 5) Button 59 points So whatever way we do it, Vettel would have been champion. |
||
__________________
That's so frickin uncool man! |
29 Nov 2010, 10:23 (Ref:2797096) | #3 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,100
|
What about dropped scores on the old drop-the-worst-third-in-each-half-of-the-season?
|
||
__________________
Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
30 Nov 2010, 03:05 (Ref:2797453) | #4 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,354
|
I might go back and do the old 9,6,4,3,2,1 and then the CART 20, 16,14,12,10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1.
Just to see how it turns out on my two preferred systems..... It will infact make little if any real difference. None of them do because they are all based on the same set assumptions Last edited by Teretonga; 30 Nov 2010 at 03:11. |
|
|
30 Nov 2010, 07:24 (Ref:2797512) | #5 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,422
|
Only way Vettel doesnt get it if you go back to pre '50s scoring
|
||
__________________
Local Track: Aldo Scribante What sort of motorist are you... Smooth or Hairy I'm definitely hairy. |
30 Nov 2010, 20:25 (Ref:2797821) | #6 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,742
|
Quote:
9-6-4-3-2-1 S Vettel 79 F Alonso 76 L Hamilton 73 M Webber 72 J Button 59 F Massa 34 N Rosberg 28 R Kubica 26 M Schumacher 11 R Barrichello 6 A Sutil 5 V Petrov 3 K Kobayashi 1 N Hulkenberg 1 V Liuzzi 1 Red Bull 151 McLaren 132 Ferrari 110 Mercedes 39 Renault 29 Williams 7 Force India 6 Sauber 1 CART S Vettel 224 F Alonso 222 M Webber 217 L Hamilton 214 J Button 199 F Massa 144 N Rosberg 142 R Kubica 138 M Schumacher 87 R Barrichello 62 A Sutil 59 K Kobayashi 43 V Petrov 35 V Liuzzi 32 N Hulkenberg 31 J Alguersuari 24 S Buemi 22 P de la Rosa 12 N Heidfeld 11 H Kovalainen 1 Red Bull 441 McLaren 413 Ferrari 366 Mercedes 229 Renault 173 Williams 93 Force India 91 Sauber 66 Toro Rosso 46 Lotus 1 I've done the CART system for quite a few seasons now and I do like it as a system. Given that I now no longer consider a championship representative of anything, I'm swaying back towards favouring a system of consistency rather than one with a greater emphasis on wins, though the current system is fine The CART system is particularly interesting because it offers the same number of points in total as the current F1 system (101), but there are less points for a win - 1st-2nd is the same ratio as the previous F1 system, but the rest of the positions are effectively worth more than under that system. So it's good for consistency but doesn't totally devalue a win. And gives points to the top 12 which is better than 8 or 10 |
|||
__________________
F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
1 Dec 2010, 06:45 (Ref:2797965) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
|
|||
__________________
That's so frickin uncool man! |
1 Dec 2010, 16:38 (Ref:2798193) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,742
|
err, no. First posted the idea of dumping the championship on my blog before Mark had even won a race
Championships don't prove anything. They're a decent indicator but people's own top 10s of a season and of all time are nearly always different to what the stats say. The idea that the championship shows who the best driver is is a myth |
||
__________________
F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
2 Dec 2010, 15:00 (Ref:2798652) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,126
|
|||
__________________
Locost #54 Boldly Leaping where no car has gone before. And then being T-boned. Damn. Survivor of the 2008 2CV 24h!! 2 engines, one accident, 76mph and rain. |
2 Dec 2010, 15:15 (Ref:2798662) | #10 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,493
|
Even spec cars wouldn't show who the best drivers is. Two reasons:
1) There are always good teams and bad teams in spec series. 2) A particular car may suit some drivers' styles, but not others. I think people need to stop trying to objectively assess who the best driver is. It cannot be done. Motorsport is a team game. We all have our opinions on who the best driver is, but it cannot be proven. |
|
|
2 Dec 2010, 17:04 (Ref:2798693) | #11 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,746
|
does it need to be definitively proven? i thought the back and forth was part of the fun.
|
||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
2 Dec 2010, 18:35 (Ref:2798737) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,354
|
Quote:
I'd agree that there is no real objective way of telling who is the best. But I also think there is far less between the contenders than we realise. A lot of it is simply their psychological make up and they opportunities that have come their way and the decisions and mistakes they have made. The points system. No points system is perfect but the consistency in results after applying several systems to this years championship should tell you that any system giving reasonable balance to the importance of a win and then spacing things closer as you move down the field will give much the same result. Whether or not the result of the championship is reliable in determining the best driver is another thing altogether. The results of the championship may give us the most successful combination of entrant/constructor and driver, and that is the team element to the WDC result. (team between driver and entrant). The WCC gives us the most successful team. That doesn't mean it is the best team, or the best team relative to its use of resources, although if you compared the budgets of McLaren, Ferrari, RBR, Renault and Mercedes, you would probably be safe in arguing that Red Bull made the most out of its resources... |
||
|
2 Dec 2010, 19:08 (Ref:2798752) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,397
|
You can't say that Schumacher, Clark, Fangio, Senna, Prost or Lauda is better that someone else by looking top 10s, that's a joke. Only wins and podiums matter to me.
|
||
__________________
Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
2 Dec 2010, 19:29 (Ref:2798764) | #14 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,493
|
||
|
2 Dec 2010, 21:21 (Ref:2798819) | #15 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,742
|
Quote:
The championship decides the champion. Opinion decides who the best driver was - there is no right or wrong answer. So beyond commercial pressures, is there really any need for a championship? That's the point I'm making That said, I do like studying championships and points systems because it's a good way of researching and does give at least a small indication, particularly in the midfield with drivers that got overlooked with the old top 6 system because they never scored points - Herbert in 1997, for instance. But I don't take any definitive conclusions from them |
|||
__________________
F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
2 Dec 2010, 23:21 (Ref:2798877) | #16 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 751
|
|||
__________________
Give me the wisdom to know what is right, the courage to change what is wrong, and the bank balance to support me when I can't tell the difference |
3 Dec 2010, 00:21 (Ref:2798896) | #17 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,354
|
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Bathurst: Points or no points? | Steve Holmes | Australasian Touring Cars. | 69 | 9 Jan 2005 11:38 |
250s 50 points on offer - 25 points difference | asha | Bike Racing | 23 | 21 Oct 2003 12:25 |
Just make the DPs faster (why the "new" GTS rules will make DPs look bad again) | Megatron | Sportscar & GT Racing | 14 | 8 Aug 2003 18:15 |
Points table after 4 races (and the points system) | x_dt | ChampCar World Series | 3 | 11 May 2003 19:44 |