[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Maelochs]

Yes, but at Le Mans at least Highcroft couldn't display their tequila sponsorship ,... and all the Arab countries are pretty anti-alcohol ...

[deggis]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

As for alcohol....isn't the ad and name of tequila showing everywhere in ALMS?

ALMS is not France.

Summary of the French law: http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=2978

[deggis]

I think Veltins will have nothing to do with the livery. First the law thing, but also considering the way Porsche has been announcing things one bit at a time, it would make sense to expect this to be the announcement of the "minor" partners and leaving the big one for later time... the kind of partner that dictates the livery would overshadow these other names and would make sense to reveal the livery at the same time too. And the press pretty clearly says Schaeffler will be on the rear wing, while according to the wording Veltins won't be.

I'm just optimistic that they will have another major/title sponsorship kind of partner, because if they don't, it's going to be pretty telling about the state of WEC.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by deggis

I'm just optimistic that they will have another major/title sponsorship kind of partner, because if they don't, it's going to be pretty telling about the state of WEC.

Not really, Neither Toyota nor Audi have title sponsor. Factories often get a good portion of funding from business to business deals (IE. using a certain brand of lubricant in their road cars exclusively in exchange for a contribution to the race program), not large stickers on the car. Often they shoulder the majority of the budget themselves, writing it off as a marketing expense.

[CTD]

Let's not forget that Total payed 50% of the Peugeot LMP1 program. They were title sponsor. A big sponsor, but not title, will put in a nice portion of funding!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Not really, Neither Toyota nor Audi have title sponsor. Factories often get a good portion of funding from business to business deals (IE. using a certain brand of lubricant in their road cars exclusively in exchange for a contribution to the race program), not large stickers on the car. Often they shoulder the majority of the budget themselves, writing it off as a marketing expense.

I know that, but explain to me why would a manufacturer spend their own money if they could spend someone else's money. That's assuming there has been sponsors willing to give big enough bag of money in exchange of livery. Apparently with Toyota and Audi there hasn't been, with Peugeot there was. But now we are talking not just any manufacturer, but the biggest name in the category and also this is now supposed to be "the year of WEC" or something.

Next someone is going to bring up the way Audi puts their own sub-brand stickers in the car, but I can't believe "Audi lightweight tech" or whatever it said on the fin alone is so priceless that they'd just turn down any sponsorship offer.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by CTD

Let's not forget that Total payed 50% of the Peugeot LMP1 program. They were title sponsor. A big sponsor, but not title, will put in a nice portion of funding!

Not that much, total (pun) budget in 2011 was 75M eur and 20M came from Total.

=> http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....36&postcount=7

[vincegail]

I have to agree with Deggis here. Porsche in endurance racing is the same as Ferrari in F1, the biggest fish in the pond, by far. If Porsche is not able to attract decent sponsors, nobody is. And then I fear the longevity of the series is not great.....

[Canada ALMS fan]

I'm saying that they don't NEED sponsorship to survive like a privateer does. They present a multi year program to the board and get it approved. They may not pursue outside sponsorship as aggressively privateers due to the fact they can place a value on exposure to their own brand. Often you will see endemic sponsors (those related to their car business, IE. Total) but less frequently you will see non-automotive sponsors on factory sportscar efforts. Look at the GTLM class in TUSC or LMP1 in WEC. These are true factory classes.
Corvette, BMW, SRT, Porsche in GTLM - no major non-auto sponsorship to speak of yet that is the best GT racing on the planet arguably.
Toyota and Audi in LMP1 - same thing.
They would happily take a major sponsor's money but it is not the make or break for the program.
As well, all those technical partners contributing add up quick in helping to fund projects.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by deggis

Not that much, total (pun) budget in 2011 was 75M eur and 20M came from Total.

=> http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....36&postcount=7

Yes and if you dug deeper I bet you would find some nice financial commitments from PSA Peugeot Citreon to Total products - a B2B deal, not an outside sponsor.
Caterham F1 is the most blatant example. If you look at their liveries in the past you will see what appear to real random sponsors:
Dell - Air Asia bought their platform computing.
Airbus - Air Asia bought their planes
General Electric - Engines for said planes
Caterham - Fernandes gets free exposure for the road car company and writes off any race team budget shortfall as a marketing expense for car company.
Tony Fernandes is brilliant, he has a race team as a toy and ties in contracts related to his "real" business to pay for it.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by deggis

Not that much, total (pun) budget in 2011 was 75M eur and 20M came from Total.

=> http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....36&postcount=7

I apologies, somehow I remembered it as Total's contribution was €75M. (Making Peugeots budget €150M)

[JoestForEver]

Few years ago there were playstation oreca, total Peugeot (what ever the share is), Muscle milk counts maybe?

[Gingers4Justice]

I really don't see how a lack of title sponsor is any tell-tale sign for the WEC specifically. More manufacturers at Le Mans in the modern era have been without one than have one.

I'm sure Porsche wouldn't "turn down" an offer from a sponsor but I'm not sure that's how things work - or how they've ever worked. Sponsors are something you seek out.

Porsche will have one if they want one.

If you want to look at the health of the WEC, count the cars in LMP1 rather than counting the stickers on the LMP1 cars.

[Acid09]

Agreed. The whole idea that "Porsche can't find a title sponsor" suggests that they even want one..which we don't know.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

As for alcohol....isn't the ad and name of tequila showing everywhere in ALMS?....

....Having what to do with the price of pianos in the Philippines?...

[The Badger]

Title sponsor will be Mobil 1 I heard .

[Adam43]

The main sponsor from the last overall win sixteen years ago.

[MyNameIsNigel]

SportAuto.de have published an interesting article about the Porsche 919 Hybrid confirming that the engine is a wide-angle 2.0L V4 with a single turbo inside the V:

LMP1 Porsche 919 mit V4-Vierzylinder und Mono-Turbo Die großen Grundsatzentscheidungen für die zentralen technischen Baugruppen des 919 Hybrid wurden natürlich schon vor langer Zeit getroffen, wenngleich vieles noch nicht offiziell kommuniziert wurde - das übliche Versteckspiel auf der höchsten Motorsportebene. Beim Motor setzt Porsche im LMP1 919er auf einen Zwei-Liter-Vierzylinder, aber nicht in Reihe angeordnet, sondern als kompaktes und steifes V4-Triebwerk. In der weit geöffneten Zylinderbank sitzt der Mono-Turbolader. Biturbo-Konzepte stehen im Motorsport übrigens offenbar nicht mehr auf der Agenda, da der Wirkungsgrad des Mono-Turbos besser ausfällt, dazu bringt diese Anordnung Vorteile bei Packaging und Gewicht.

There is furthermore a suggestion that Porsche have opted for the 8 MJ/lap ERS option:

Die größte Herausforderung für die Hersteller liegt so in der vernetzten Nutzung der elektrischen Zusatzenergie in Verbindung mit dem Verbrennungsmotor und dem Allradantrieb. "Die Einspeisung der Energie steuert ein zentraler Energiemanager, der die Boost-Strategie der jeweiligen Fahrsituation anpasst", erklärt Hitzinger. Die Anforderungen an die elektronische Steuerung sind kolossal: Weil der LMP1-Verbrennungsmotor pro Runde in Le Mans nur eine bestimmte Menge Energie verbrauchen darf (im Fall von Porsche 134,8 Megajoule), muss die Steuerung der Zusatzenergie über den Boost situativ angepasst werden.

Indeed, the only ERS option that comes close to the quoted figure of 134.8 MJ/lap is the 8 MJ/lap ERS option for which the petrol energy allocation is 134.9 MJ/lap according to Appendix B of the 2014 LMP1 Technical Regulations as published on December 19th, 2013.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Is this an official Porsche picture ? In the affirmative, a real crappy photoshop work. The guy on the right has lost his legs in the process...

[CTD]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Is this an official Porsche picture ? In the affirmative, a real crappy photoshop work. The guy on the right has lost his legs in the process...

Are you sure he's not a giant kneeling behind the pitwall?

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Is this an official Porsche picture ? In the affirmative, a real crappy photoshop work. The guy on the right has lost his legs in the process...

Where are those ghost hunter guys from TV... i see something odd to the left of the kneeling giant!

[joeb]

There were a few images floating around from a Monza test today as well.

Check out @PorscheLMP1Fans's Tweet: https://twitter.com/PorscheLMP1Fans/...88354192240640

[Spyderman]

I have made a very difficult choice: All my life I have wanted to go to Le Mans to see Porsche compete at what all Porsche fans consider " Home Turf".
Unfortunately , the only time I have been to Le Mans , Porsche was not racing (1999).
I needed to make the choice between going to Le Mans this year to witness the much anticipated return of Porsche to LMP1, or delaying my trip for one more year and possibly seeing a Porsche victory.

I have decided to delay my trip for one more year (hopefully).

I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around this V4 option that Porsche has made.
They have obviously opted for the "Tortoise" strategy (much to my chagrin), and whilst I get the "efficiency" thing, neither Audi nor Toyota are complete idiots, so someone has their figures wrong.
I really don't want to sit and watch the Porsches getting blown away on the Mulsanne straight.

I hope that I'm wrong.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Is this an official Porsche picture ?

Same batch of photos, so I think so. Pretty sloppy from the PR department...

http://www.sportauto.de/bilder/lmp1-...e-8014374.html

[Articus]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Is this an official Porsche picture ? In the affirmative, a real crappy photoshop work. The guy on the right has lost his legs in the process...

So what possible reason would a mere brake cooler have camouflage on it? Someone is taking there job a little too seriously. This bucks the trend of shrouded brake rotors.