Wet car setup

justafeind · 19 Jun 2005, 16:35 (Ref:1332993)

Hi all im net to the fourm been visiting as a guest for some while decided to get involved, i hope i can bring somthing with me.

Just watched the BTCC oulton wet race and the front anti roll bar on the seat was disconnected, was it front only or rear aswell, i have known only the rear to be diconnected can you inlighten me to what this does please

justafeind · 19 Jun 2005, 16:37 (Ref:1332995)

oops wrong button sorry

greenamex2 · 20 Jun 2005, 08:44 (Ref:1334206)

In short, softens the disconnected end of the car considerably giving more grip in the wet.

On my rear wheel drive car we disconnect the the front bar to significantly reduce understeer in the wet (worth over a second at Brands).

zefarelly · 20 Jun 2005, 13:51 (Ref:1334532)

hmm . . .. all I can do is change my damper settings, something I've yet to play with ( I only fitted them last week) with the prospect of rain at Dijon (according to yahoo weather) I may be putting them to the test. the other thing we do is up tyre pressures slightly to try and open the treads out, having said that the tread seems to be of little use.

greenamex2 · 20 Jun 2005, 15:18 (Ref:1334650)

I tested the same/higher/lower pressure thing some time ago and found a couple of pound lower resulted in better lap times round Brands. However that is on genuine road tyres and RWD so may not be relevent to all cars.

graham bahr · 20 Jun 2005, 20:34 (Ref:1335058)

i used to find in my car a couple less psi all round worked best maybe with a little less damping, i have tried disconnecting roll bars, but the rear didn't do anything and the front just spoilt the turn in, this was in RWD with either slicks or list 1b (sticky) road tyres

Richy_Rich · 20 Jun 2005, 20:53 (Ref:1335085)

I always thought it was a couple more psi in the wet like zef says? (as your tyres will be colder, etc. etc. like the other thread

I've never tried disconnecting the roll bar because all the wet races I've done I was reticent to change what was ostensibly a working (and occasionally winning) set up...

This year with my only 2 appearances being DNS's I'll disconnect anything just to have a working car...grrr

Lukin · 21 Jun 2005, 11:08 (Ref:1335678)

I work with a Formula Ford and it bucketed down at the last round. Disconnected the rear bar and went to full soft. It was pretty much all guess work; still trying to fully understand dry setup, so wet was throwing **** at a wall and seeing what sticks!

For the first race we ran normal cold pressures plus 2 psi and the car was pretty unstable and 10% slower in lap time than the leader. Upped the pressures to what they usually run hot (19.5 psi) and the traction went through the roof and the difference to the leader dropped to 1.5%.

Didn't have any softer springs to throw at the car and didn't really touch the dampers, though I wish I did.

JohnMiller · 21 Jun 2005, 11:29 (Ref:1335698)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukin

For the first race we ran normal cold pressures plus 2 psi and the car was pretty unstable and 10% slower in lap time than the leader. Upped the pressures to what they usually run hot (19.5 psi) and the traction went through the roof and the difference to the leader dropped to 1.5%.

ACB10s?

maddogf3 · 21 Jun 2005, 11:54 (Ref:1335729)

Anti Roll bar's reduce weight tranfer to outside wheel in the wet or dry but in the wet , you are not able to tranfer as much weight because of greatly reduced co effeicent of friction .Damper's effect how fast weight is moved. Any softening either springs or roll bars usualy gives driver a bit more feel but we have found with F ford and F3 that it doesnt drop lap times so we dont do either. I allow the driver to slacken off the rear bar a bit ( It makes him feel better ) biggest thing though that no one above has mentioned ( If you can do it) is to Stand the wheels up near vertical and put more brake bias to rear, that does drop lap times I expect everyone is doing that anyway . FF tyre benefit from increased press but none of you seem to be anywhere near what they work best out . and no where near what Avon reccomend I have covered this before in a previous forum on tyre pressure. If you can afford it keep a set of tyres for wet use only ( Sharp edges squeegy water away ,round one's dont ) .

Mackmot · 21 Jun 2005, 11:55 (Ref:1335732)

Disconnect rear bar(RWD car), soften bump front and rear, tyre pressures to about 20(crossply) 22-26 (Radials), soften front spring pre load. Oh yeah and use wet tyres.

Mackmot · 21 Jun 2005, 11:56 (Ref:1335733)

oh yeah and madddog says, less camber and brake bias back

greenamex2 · 21 Jun 2005, 14:02 (Ref:1335926)

Despite running real road tyres we still keep a set for wets. This is both for the increase tread depth (the dry's are buffed down, I actually PAY to remove tread I have PAID for!) but more importantly because the wets have never been subjected to the heat cycles that the dry's have. Probably more important with a heavy saloon car but probably also a consideration for maddogf3?

**dtype38** · 21 Jun 2005, 20:23 (Ref:1336394)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackmot

Disconnect rear bar(RWD car), soften bump front and rear, tyre pressures to about 20(crossply) 22-26 (Radials), soften front spring pre load. Oh yeah and use wet tyres.... oh yeah and madddog says, less camber and brake bias back

And if it starts to rain just before your race? Those of us without a pit crew just have to go with what we've got

Lukin · 22 Jun 2005, 11:38 (Ref:1337035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

ACB10s?

Yep. I found that worked for me, but it might not work for someone else. More wet testing would be good (but also be crap doing it!).

maddogf3 · 22 Jun 2005, 13:56 (Ref:1337216)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Despite running real road tyres we still keep a set for wets. This is both for the increase tread depth (the dry's are buffed down, I actually PAY to remove tread I have PAID for!) but more importantly because the wets have never been subjected to the heat cycles that the dry's have. Probably more important with a heavy saloon car but probably also a consideration for maddogf3?

"What is a consideration for me "??????

greenamex2 · 22 Jun 2005, 15:20 (Ref:1337306)

Running fresher tyres as wets rather than ones that have been through a number heat cycles in the dry.

maddogf3 · 23 Jun 2005, 07:38 (Ref:1338005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Running fresher tyres as wets rather than ones that have been through a number heat cycles in the dry.

I actualy covered all this in a prevoius thread . We Try to use nwe slicks for every race ( worth at least .8 to 1 sec )
Wet tyres -- Standing water new tyres ( gives massive drop in times can be 1.5 sec ) If its damp try to run with slicks if wet have an a set of tyres that have done one wet race
We keep cycling the tyres so worn ones are binned then the ones that have only done one race replace them, if that makes sense ( We do get a little sponsor money that pays for tyres ) . Slicks being about £ 600 a set . last year we were quite competive .
Dont know whats happened this year we seem to of lost a second of our previous times -- last time that happened it was a damper that had gone off They are charged with nitrogen at 300 lbs and I cant even compress them to feel damping . We had them done and got times back that was 18 months ago so I am in the process of sending them off again
In ff we again tried to use new tyres for every race but kept a brand new set for wet if they got used then they were then used in the dry next time and a new set of wets purchased .With the new one's ,I got steve to do 2 laps to get mould release crap off at far less than race speed they were then ready for the wet , THIS ALL WORKED FOR US . Steve was known to be bloody good in the wet,( we came second last year at Donnington in the wetand that with a car thats 18 years old ) hope that clears up ,where I am coming from Oh I do know all the why and where for of buffing tyres up and the use of road tyres on race cars . but I didn't know there was a saloon car class using them or have i got what you said wrong

THR · 24 Jun 2005, 21:12 (Ref:1339510)

ahh only worth a second a lap if your driver will use them tho!!!
some drivers ive found work best working up to the lap time.
perhaps the older drivers!!???? lol bollocx do play a HUGE part in racing as you all know im sure!!!

got a q tho, tyres take abit to warm up, new tyres take a while to warm up? so are they quicker on the 2nd lap or 10 laps in when fully hot ?

maddogf3 · 25 Jun 2005, 22:52 (Ref:1340122)

[

got a q tho, tyres take abit to warm up, new tyres take a while to warm up? so are they quicker on the 2nd lap or 10 laps in when fully hot ?[/QUOTE]
DEAR THR
am not telling you ---- Use your most worn tyres at all times pref after 500 mile hard racing and 12 months testing for most important races . Keep new tyre in the Avon Truck where they belong and only put in 15 litres of unleaded and set tyres to 10 lbs pressure best wishes Martin

THR · 26 Jun 2005, 20:08 (Ref:1340498)

lol yea ok.

not as if we get new tyres very often anyway!! once? twice a year??

greenamex2 · 26 Jun 2005, 20:58 (Ref:1340543)

THR - One of the benefits of running a series sponsored by a tyre manufacturer (Toyo) that gives big discounts.

Hurrah.

maddogf3 · 28 Jun 2005, 14:33 (Ref:1342022)

Quote:

Originally Posted by THR

ahh only worth a second a lap if your driver will use them tho!!!
some drivers ive found work best working up to the lap time.
perhaps the older drivers!!???? lol bollocx do play a HUGE part in racing as you all know im sure!!!

got a q tho, tyres take abit to warm up, new tyres take a while to warm up? so are they quicker on the 2nd lap or 10 laps in when fully hot ?

OK I feel sorry for you ,with that ancient driver of yours . Not sure what to say about tyres .Since one way or another you can get them to work best either quickly or slowly depending on pressure you inflate them too. think you will find best at about 15 give or take how he drives. after about 10 laps get him in and try and get around 22 all around that is on a good lap time if he isint driving hard enough they might not get hot enough and you could inflate them a little, not to hard they will baloon .you need the tyre to operate at the correct slip angle to get the maximun co- effiecient of friction I do happen to know what most of the other teams are using anyway . if you stick with that you wont go far wrong . Running hard springs tends to use tyres so can upset heat build up . I dont think you are running too hard springs are you ? Tell him ( Your Driver ) if he gets me a few bottles of Pinot Noir and i'll spill some more things that will improve your lap times WE are not doing Mallory ( We hate the place ) having to jack the car up to get in and out of Scrutineering is a joke . We have lost 1.0 second off last years pace and have a misfire . Got the bag tank out inspecting in there hoping to find a dead rat or something .We do have a pidgeon that constantly craps over the tank so we have moved it . We thought it gave us luck .SC getting married that week so it would be a load of hassle to go there . Hope to see you soon as long as you dont start work at 11 o-clock at night again I need a lot of beauty sleep these days Regards Martin

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