Should Vauxhall rebrand as Opel?

[I Rosputnik]

Just something I've wondered about for a while now considering the current line up of Vauxhall cars are Opels.

Here's a little background on the issue. (It's from 2009, but relevant.)

[MagnetON]

Already are Opel here in ROI

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Already are Opel here in ROI

Was it Vauxhall in the beginning? If so when did it rebrand?

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Was it Vauxhall in the beginning? If so when did it rebrand?

Haven't a clue, it's been Opel since I got here 15 years ago

[davyboy]

Yes Vauxhall and Opel used to be sold as separate brands in Ireland. If memory serves me right, that stopped in the early 1980s and it was only Opel that was marketed. I have never understood why it continues to be Vauxhall in the UK and Opel everywhere else, but somebody told me some time ago that it was to do with the British-German thing... i.e. superseding a British brand for a German one wouldn't go down well. Seems bonkers to me if that's the reason... but just as bonkers to continue with Vauxhall in the UK only.

[deley]

Should Vauxhall rebrand as Opel?
No.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by deley

Should Vauxhall rebrand as Opel?
No.

OK, maybe you could explain why ?

[garcon]

It's all about marketing.

I would like the Vauxhall name to remain in the UK. In fact I preferred it in the 80s, when the ordinary mass market stuff was badged Vauxhall (Shove-it, Cavalier etc.) and the higher end sports and luxury cars were Opels (Manta, Monza, Senator).

But then it got confused when Opel started importing the Kadett and Ascona.

More important than Vauxhall vs Opel badging, the future may see a European Vauxhall Opel company devolved from GM. It would be interesting to see how such a company might do, released from the grip of GM US debt.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by garcon

It's all about marketing.

I would like the Vauxhall name to remain in the UK. In fact I preferred it in the 80s, when the ordinary mass market stuff was badged Vauxhall (Shove-it, Cavalier etc.) and the higher end sports and luxury cars were Opels (Manta, Monza, Senator).

But then it got confused when Opel started importing the Kadett and Ascona.

More important than Vauxhall vs Opel badging, the future may see a European Vauxhall Opel company devolved from GM. It would be interesting to see how such a company might do, released from the grip of GM US debt.

Vauxhall develops it's own budget cars while Opel moves in along side and imports upmarket cars. Could work when you look at how the Dacia/Renault branding works. However the issue with that is if it competes with Chevrolet. GM were trying to move the two brands to different parts of the market to prevent them from competing against each other. If GM let go of Opel/Vauxhall and the new owners start making dents in the brands GM still own I would be worried if GM made the new owners lives a living hell. (See Saab)

Still, if GM lets goes of Opel, it would be nice to see Opels being Opels and Vauxhalls being Vauxhalls rather then Opels and Vauxhalls being Opels.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by garcon

It's all about marketing.

I would like the Vauxhall name to remain in the UK. In fact I preferred it in the 80s, when the ordinary mass market stuff was badged Vauxhall (Shove-it, Cavalier etc.) and the higher end sports and luxury cars were Opels (Manta, Monza, Senator).

But then it got confused when Opel started importing the Kadett and Ascona.

More important than Vauxhall vs Opel badging, the future may see a European Vauxhall Opel company devolved from GM. It would be interesting to see how such a company might do, released from the grip of GM US debt.

"It's all about marketing"

That doesn't really explain why in 2012 the same cars would be branded Vauxhall only in the UK and Opel everywhere else. I grant you that in the past that the branding was a complete dogs dinner and that problem wasn't just confined to GM-Europe.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Vauxhall develops it's own budget cars while Opel moves in along side and imports upmarket cars. Could work when you look at how the Dacia/Renault branding works. However the issue with that is if it competes with Chevrolet. GM were trying to move the two brands to different parts of the market to prevent them from competing against each other. If GM let go of Opel/Vauxhall and the new owners start making dents in the brands GM still own I would be worried if GM made the new owners lives a living hell. (See Saab)

Still, if GM lets goes of Opel, it would be nice to see Opels being Opels and Vauxhalls being Vauxhalls rather then Opels and Vauxhalls being Opels.

But Vauxhall's only known in Britain... and furthermore, it has exactly the same brand perception as Opel everywhere else. It would be a serious error to attempt to devalue one mass market brand [for no good reason] and elevate another [a truly gargantuan challenge that could take a decade or more]. I can't ever see that happening.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by davyboy

But Vauxhall's only known in Britain... and furthermore, it has exactly the same brand perception as Opel everywhere else. It would be a serious error to attempt to devalue one mass market brand [for no good reason] and elevate another [a truly gargantuan challenge that could take a decade or more]. I can't ever see that happening.

You're probably right.

But that just shows that GM's manipulation of the brands permanently damaged the status of Opel, if not in Europe then at least in the UK. Prior to that, Opel was a German marque considered by many alongside the likes of BMW and - at the time - above Audi.

[johngee]

I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out that Opel has fewer letters on the badge than Vauxhall, thus saving on metal/plastic. Since bean counters rule, that a good cost saving opportunity?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by garcon

Prior to that, Opel was a German marque considered by many alongside the likes of BMW and - at the time - above Audi.

Yep, I'd agree with that. Growing up my dad had several Opel Rekords... they were excellent family cars. There was something slightly cooler about them compared with their Vauxhall alter egos of the time. They were as strong as hell too. I also had 3 Opel Mantas myself and loved them as well. But that was the past... today they're exactly the same car, made in the same plants on the same production lines... the only difference being the being the lettering on the badge... literally !

[DS"]

Originally Posted by garcon

You're probably right.

But that just shows that GM's manipulation of the brands permanently damaged the status of Opel, if not in Europe then at least in the UK. Prior to that, Opel was a German marque considered by many alongside the likes of BMW and - at the time - above Audi.

Really? In Germany, Opel had already a bad reputation since the 90's, because of the alledged poor quality of some cars. Although we had a Vectra A until 1998, and I don't remember any lack of quality. On the other hand, my father chose to buy the cheaper Mazda 626 afterwards, instead of an Opel Astra.

But I really don't think that Opel was ever at par with BMW or Audi. Because Opel is first and foremost a working class marque, whereas BMW and Audi are more upper middle class marques.

[FIRE]

Fifteen to twenty years ago GM should have rebranded Vauxhall, Opel and Holden as Chevrolet to create a global brand.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by garcon

More important than Vauxhall vs Opel badging, the future may see a European Vauxhall Opel company devolved from GM. It would be interesting to see how such a company might do, released from the grip of GM US debt.

Vauxhall/opel was the only division that didn't turn a profit last year...

They would have to start from scratch. No way GM will let go of the insignia as it is too successful in the us and China.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Vauxhall/opel was the only division that didn't turn a profit last year...

They would have to start from scratch. No way GM will let go of the insignia as it is too successful in the us and China.

Considering nothing in the Auto industry seems to be sacred right now, makes you wonder there is a chance, if GM kills Opel (let alone rebrand Vauxhall), they will pluck the bits that sells such as the Insignia, Astra and Corsa, put them into another brand such as Buick (Considering Buick is turning into Opel USA) or Cadillac and dump the bits of Opel they do not like such as the debts via ye old merry liquidating axe.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by DS"

Really? In Germany, Opel had already a bad reputation since the 90's, because of the alledged poor quality of some cars. Although we had a Vectra A until 1998, and I don't remember any lack of quality. On the other hand, my father chose to buy the cheaper Mazda 626 afterwards, instead of an Opel Astra.

But I really don't think that Opel was ever at par with BMW or Audi. Because Opel is first and foremost a working class marque, whereas BMW and Audi are more upper middle class marques.

Ah, I'm talking earlier than that. It's only since VAG started redefining their brands in the 1980s that Audis went upmarket, starting with the ur-Quattro and then the 'space age' 100.

And until all Opels were rebadged Vauxhalls in the UK (early '90s?), we considered Opel to be a (sub)premium brand. Not quite Merc or Jag, but better than the posh Fords. Maybe on a par with Rover. Of course, that was largely driven by the way Opel were marketed over here, and the fact that apart from very low numbers of Kadetts and Asconas, we only got the Manta, Monza and Senator.

(Oh how I would love a modern day equivalent of a Monza GSE ... what a superb car!)

[garcon]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Vauxhall/opel was the only division that didn't turn a profit last year...

They would have to start from scratch. No way GM will let go of the insignia as it is too successful in the us and China.

I did wonder if I was still correct there - I know GM US has (of necessity) seen a pretty brutal re structuring in recent years.

Although the climate is difficult, Vauxhall really ought to be doing better than they are. There's very little wrong with their products.

[FAS33]

Should Vauxhaull be rebranded?
Yes
To what?
Holden

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by garcon

Ah, I'm talking earlier than that. It's only since VAG started redefining their brands in the 1980s that Audis went upmarket, starting with the ur-Quattro and then the 'space age' 100.

And until all Opels were rebadged Vauxhalls in the UK (early '90s?), we considered Opel to be a (sub)premium brand. Not quite Merc or Jag, but better than the posh Fords. Maybe on a par with Rover. Of course, that was largely driven by the way Opel were marketed over here, and the fact that apart from very low numbers of Kadetts and Asconas, we only got the Manta, Monza and Senator.

(Oh how I would love a modern day equivalent of a Monza GSE ... what a superb car!)

Ya agreed. I was also referring to pre- early 1980s as well when discussing the Rekord/Manta etc... and yes the Monza GSE was an awesome piece of kit - almost on a par with a BMW 635. Wouldn't have minded a Manta 400 either !

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Should Vauxhaull be rebranded?
Yes
To what?
Holden

V8 UTES FOR EVERYONE! d(^_^d)

Yes, when I have my multi million graphic design company I will get my V8 ute and blast through the countryside! (Wait, I'm going off topic.)

[garcon]

If I ever own a multi million dollar company of any description, the very last thing you'll see me blasting anywhere in is a prehistoric Aussie truck.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by garcon

If I ever own a multi million dollar company of any description, the very last thing you'll see me blasting anywhere in is a prehistoric Aussie truck.

Killjoy... >_<

Edit - I've just seen the running costs... Oh well, I'm sure if you had a million pounds I'm sure you wouldn't care... Much...