AUSTRIA'S Trivia - Lap 4

[AUSTRIA]

The Question will be postet
Friday, March 31; at 18:00 o'clock.(time of this Bulletin board)

Good luck.

[AUSTRIA]

I'll try to drift once more away from classical trivias. Subsequent discussion demanded!

Question A)

SPELUZZI

The Question is: Give me a ultra-short bio of him (3 - 5 lines)
The 'additional stuff': What was his contribution to formula one. Don't forget his post-Milano time.


Question B)

A F1-car, technically wide ahead of many others, but never successful; a real shame;
Which one do I mean; One single hint: it was 'sugar-candy-blue'.
If I tell you more, it will be to easy for you. I am afraid, you give me the answer in about 10 minutes.

The Question is: Its Name, Type and when did it run?
The 'additional stuff': All, you know about it


Question C)
Have a look to lap 1 with the dinner in the pits during a GP.
You all know amazing anectotes of that sort. Please tell us the most courios, you know

The question is: who posts first
The 'additional stuff': The story itself.


Good luck !
Subsequent discussion demanded!

[Michael M]

Would like to contribute first to question C. I know of course that this story is widespread already and known be principally anybody, nevertheless I tell it here again.

The new GP formula for 1934 onwards was the so-called "750 kg formula". Background is that in those days engine power means large volume, and large volume heavy engine. So when limiting the total weight of a race car, also the weight of the engine and consequently the power would be limited. During their first appearance at a GP in 1934 at the International Avus Race at Berlin, the Mercedes W25 had been painted in Germany's traditional race colour white. During scrutineering the cars had been found to heavy, exactly 751.5 kgs. Neubauer ordered the mechanics over night to remove the white paint from the cars, and the next days all W25 weighted 749.5 kgs, and had been silver! This was the birth of the Silver Arrows!

[Michael M]

Question B:
For the time being only a suggestion:
Gordini Typ1 16, 1950-55.
Will survey more detailed tomorrow - taking the risk that somebody else is faster.

[Michael M]

Would like to contribute first to question C. I know of course that this story is widespread already and known be principally anybody, nevertheless I tell it here again.

The new GP formula for 1934 onwards was the so-called "750 kg formula". Background is that in those days engine power means large volume, and large volume heavy engine. So when limiting the total weight of a race car, also the weight of the engine and consequently the power would be limited. During their first appearance at a GP in 1934 at the International Avus Race at Berlin, the Mercedes W25 had been painted in Germany's traditional race colour white. During scrutineering the cars had been found to heavy, exactly 751.5 kgs. Neubauer ordered the mechanics over night to remove the white paint from the cars, and the next days all W25 weighted 749.5 kgs, and had been silver! This was the birth of the Silver Arrows!

[AUSTRIA]

Michael:

The Gordini 16 was blue, in fact; but in which technical details it was wide ahead of many others?

To the Silver-arrows-story - still a good one: A lot of time ago somewhere I have read, that it was the suggestion of one of the drivers to remove the colour, - Fagioli, if i remember right. Do you know anything about this matter?

[Hans.ca]

I'm guessing on question B. Would it be the Wilson Fittipaldi F1 car?
I can add to your Question C.
At the 24 hour race in Daytona american driver Jerry Grant was entered in a Ford Mustang. During practice and qualifying they blew up all there engines. In order to race they rented a mustang from Herz I think and drove it to the track. There they took out the engine and put it into the race car. If memory serves me right Jerry finished 4th overall, his higest finish in the 24 hour ever. After the race they changed the engine back to the rental car and it was returned to the rental agency with only an extra 17 miles on the odometer.

[jarama]

'Bout the Silver Arrows story, it seems that was like that:
In those days -1934- Hermann Lang -later driver in his own- was chief mechanic to Luigi Fagioli. He remembers all the team standing around discussing what was to be done 'bout the extra kilo, but cannot recall that the idea for removing the paint came from any one person... but the fact that possibly was one of the mechanics.

[Michael M]

Obviously the "silver arrows" story is true, however, who really had the idea is doubtful. According to Neubauer's biography it was his idea, but driver Manfred von Brauchitsch in various interviews claims it has grown in his brain. As von Brauchitsch is the sole survivor from this period, there's nobody to confirm or deny.

The above Le Mans story is great, remembers me about the "inoffical" Mercedes participation in the 1970 24 hours.
Film director Roman Polanski ordered a 300 SEL 6.3 from MB in 1970, which should be delivered to him to Cannes when he attended the film festival there. MB hired an unemployed former Porsche race driver to drive the car from Stuttgart to France. He made a stop at Le Mans visiting the 24 hours race, and have a chat with some old friends. Most probably under influence of alcohol this driver took a wrong exit from the paddock and found himself on the main straight of the track. Thinking that this is the opportunity of his live, he pressed down the pedal, and it is reported that the mighty 6.3 litre sedan did it quite well between all the other big bangers. The marshals tried to blackflag him, but without any succees, only after he ran out of fuel, the first Le Mans race of Mercedes after 15 years absence was over. The driver had been arrested by the police, and after Polanski had been informed about the "racing history" of his car, he refused to take it. It went back to the factory, and later sold to the USA.

[Michael M]

Austria, there was nothing special with the Gordini 16, it was only a try. From all your earlier topics it is clear that your "period of interest" ends somewhere end of the 50s / early 60s, so any later "blue" cars like Tyrrell, Matra etc. most probably are out of the game. One the other side, this question says "F1", so it could not be earlier than 1950. Concentrating on blue cars between 1950 and 1960, there are only a few. Okay, Gordini failed, so there remains only one potential answer: The Bugatti 251!
It was the last swansong of this marque to return back to former glory. The 251 was entered in the French GP of 1956 driven By Louis Trintignant, I don't know whether there had been other appearances.
The technically advanced thing of this Bugatti was that the engine was mounted transversely in the rear. Although this design was not totally new - Auto-Union made it famous in the 30s - , it was well ahead of the Coopers of the early 60s.

[jarama]

Following with the Bugatti T251 story, in the French G.P. Trintignant did only 18 laps and brought the car into the pits, saying that he valued his life and would not continue in such a death trap. There are sources relating the withdrawal of the race with jammed throttles, but seems certain that the car did not more than 18 laps.

The car went back to the works and never turned again -can be seen now in the Bugatti Museum at Mulhouse.

[AUSTRIA]

Question A)

?!


Question B)

This was a sort of mouse-trap, especially for you - Michael
Remember: I'm looking for a car, that was in technical details ahead of its competitors, but never succeeded, what means: no points !!! The Fittipaldi was no bad guess, but never blue.


Question C)

Very good stuff, hans and Michael. Is there more ?


And don't forget question A) - or are two points to score no spurt ?

Wish you a beautiful evening, will be back tomorrow...


[This message has been edited by AUSTRIA (edited 02 April 2000).]

[jarama]

Q.2:

Are we speaking of the BRM P207 Rotary Watches-backed, isn't it?

It was blue, technically advanced and never successful.

[jarama]

Q.2:

The BRM P207 was designed by Len Terry, engaged by Stanley-BRM, backed by Rotary Watches and made his debut in the Brasilian G.P.'77 driven by Larry Perkins who was the slowest in practice, 12" behind poleman James Hunt. Only one lap did in the race, brought into the pits by Perkins due to overheating.

Larry Perkins, Conny Andersson and Teddy Pilette were at the wheel of the car, without any success at all, with No-Qualifications, DNF, etc.

The only race finished was the South African G.P., with Larry Perkins at the wheel, in an irrelevant 15th.and last position, 5 laps behind the winner, Niki Lauda.

[AUSTRIA]

Beautifil car, the P207, and blue ..
.. but not sweet-candy-blue

But if I tell you, the car I'm looking for, was driven also by Larry Perkins, you will find out ..

If not, a last hint before tuesday evening: There was only one type of this make ever

.. and it was really a progressive car, but the circunstances didn't allow good results.

[Michael M]

Q2:
Considering all said details, it must be the Amon-Ford AF-101 of 1974, but I really do not know the special technical features of this car ...

[Michael M]

Q1:
Really extremely difficult one, as not much published about Speluzzi (I even don't know his full name). Austria himself said already in round 1 (Scuderia Milano): "In the year 1950 the Ruggeris charged Speluzzi to modify their Maserati, called from now on Maserati-Speluzzi and later Milano M01". In 1955 he helped to build the Arzani-Volpini GP car, but as this car started only once (GP Italy), and did even not finish, I don't consider neither this car nor its creators to be a considerable contribution to F1. Later in the 50s he was engaged to develop the Arzani Formula Junior car, but this is not F1, so has no relation to the question.
I give up at tis point!

[Testa Rossa]

Hello guys

Sorry for being late, I spent a quite buzzy week-end with for my studies.

Question B)

I think Michael has found the answer : it must be the Amon-Ford AF101. If the car is said to be technically advanced, it is mostly because it was in fact a copy of the Lotus 72 : it has torsion bar suspension, hip radiators, and in-board brakes front and rear. (front brakes were out-board after
Jarama)

- Spanish GP 1974, Amon, DNF
- Monaco GP 1974, Amon; DNS
- German GP 1974, crashed by Perkins in practice, so DNS
- Italian GP 1974, Amon, DNQ

One thing is sure, the car was not successful !

PS : I think the car is now in a german museum, perhaps at the Nürburgring.

Question A)

Just a quick note to say that the Arzani-Volpini GP car in fact started the Pau Grand Prix in April 1955, and killed is driver Alborghetti. It was to be driven in the Italian GP by Piotti but as far as I know DNS.

Testa Rossa

[AUSTRIA]

Only a quick note for cooling you down a bit: It was the Amon ! Gratulation.

I will add some features in near future.

[Michael M]

Hereafter the technically advanced features of the Amon-Ford:
"All the fuel was placed in a tank between the driver and the engine, giving it a low polar moment of inertia. The brakes were inboard, the suspension used torsion bars instead of coil springs. The original aerodynamics were quite the cutting edge as well, using a wing placed over the front wheels in conjuction with a reverse curved nose section to counteract high speed lift at speed".
Austria, no comments please ...

Edit: ... because you know where I found this!


[This message has been edited by Michael M (edited 03 April 2000).]

[Michael M]

Hello, Testa Rossa, we missed you already!

[AUSTRIA]

See the results:
A) right answer ............................ 1 Point open, see below
A) storys, anectotes, other good stuff .. 1 Point open, see below

B) right answer ............................ 2 Points Testa Rossa sharing with Michael M
B) storys, anectotes, other good stuff .. 1 Point Michael M

C) right answer ............................ 3 Points Michael M
C) storys, anectotes, other good stuff .. 1 Point hans.ca
(For his famous story, quite amusing)

And the tenth Bonus Point to jarama: for his excellent fact on the P207 - BTW, it was indeed sugar-candy-blue; I mixed it up with the P201 ...

SPELUZZI

not enough for me! I'm still on research; who can tell me, what made the change from 4CLT/48 to 4CLT/50 - only seen by the Milano-Maserati - this must in some way be related to Speluzzi's efforts. The Maserati-Milano appeared first in the Milano-GP 1949. The organizers had spent a price for any new Car-Engine combination and Scuderia Milano made efforts to win it - and they did! I'm also interested, what were the changes to the engine?

[Testa Rossa]

The Maserati-Milan engine was tuned by Mario Speluzzi who worked on speed-boats, like the record boat of the Leto di Priolo brothers (Who are also known for being entrants and drivers of Fiat 8V and Ferrari in italian races). The Roots blowers were made to work at 44 psi instead of 28 psi, the result being a claimed 30 bhp bonus from 260 to 290 according to some sources, others speaking of 306 bhp at 7000 rpm. The cars had also shortened wheelbase and larger drums. The principal fonction of these cars was indeed to won the 6 million Lire price given at the 1949 Italian GP. For 1950, Scuderia Milano built two ladder frame chassis, with double wishbone and torsion bar
front suspension, and a de Dion axle on transversal leaf spring for 01, while 02 had an independant setup with trailing links and a transversal leaf spring. Chassis 01 was raced through 1950 (being called Milano-Maserati). For the 1950 Italian GP, new cylinder head with two plugs per cylinder
raised the power to 320 bhp. Chassis 02 would be sold and latter became the Arzani-Volpini in 1955.

The 2 Maserati 4CLT/50 were chassis 1611 and 1612. The power was 280 bhp (instead of 260 for the 4CLT/48), and some wheight-saving results in 620 kg instead of 630 kg.

Testa Rossa

[Michael M]

Testa Rossa, absolutely phantastic ...
I'm sure Austria will be delighted!

[AUSTRIA]

Hallo you both, ready for take off .. ? Lap 5 - the questions already are posted - but I think you both are struggling now, anyone else on the party today evening ?

Testa Rossa, hello again - you got my last mail ?

I have a note on my desk that the Milano engine had 1598 ccm (against 1591 ccm of the original Maserati-engine), but it seems to be basicly the same engine. And if the 4CLT/50 was delivered from the Officine A. Maserati to Milano, why didn't they use the better car by theirselves? O.A.M. run two 4CLT/48 for Chiron and Rol. So Lawrence gives not the answers I am prompting you. Can you or Michael or elsewhere out give some more explanation?

BTW, Michael, what means 'Hubraum' in english? I've no dictionary with me at the moment ...

[This message has been edited by AUSTRIA (edited 07 April 2000).]