NZV8's 2011/12

[promax]

Originally Posted by RogerH

Maybe the difference between the cars being the stars and the drivers being the stars is something to do with the structure of the series. If the cars in a series are all different (like Central Muscle Cars) then they are the point of difference - therefore the cars are the stars. However, with NZV8 and SuperTourers the cars are effectively identical and so the point of difference is the drivers - hence the drivers are the stars.

i see your point. MSNZ could've moved the focus off of the small NZV8 grids by promoting the hell out of the TRS. decent grid.. a lot young international drivers.. mainstream media would be into that.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by promax

...personally i think the cars.. not the stars draw the crowds. the Central Muscle Cars have a decent following.. yet by your definition.. no stars odd that?

I was simply answering your question - haha we have "star drivers" in this country? Anything else you've read into that is all in your head.

[Stockman]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

........... it was decided by some of those (who used MSNZ money to investigate/design the new car) to steal the concept and tweak it a wee bit to line their own pockets .

That was the rumour going around a while ago. Then we were advised MSNZ were going to take legal action.... nothing eventuated. Is it possible there was no substance to this rumour ?

[on_to_it]

I would agree. If there were serious questions to be answered, you would expect some action would have been taken, wouldn't you.

[Mr Revhead]

Those of you bleating about MSNZ should not be involved. ********.
For years they have been deciding the rules about classes. Why should that change?
If they didn't who would? At least with them in change it (should) be a cohesive series. It was until a couple of years back anyway.
I still maintain the problems arose when they insisted on making the entire Tier 1 series single make races.

[Stockman]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Those of you bleating about MSNZ should not be involved. ********.
For years they have been deciding the rules about classes. Why should that change?
If they didn't who would? At least with them in change it (should) be a cohesive series. It was until a couple of years back anyway.
I still maintain the problems arose when they insisted on making the entire Tier 1 series single make races.

I don't see anyone bleating about MSNZ deciding the rules, it's their job.
If they stuck to that then fine.

[Biggy G]

Just saw Shaun announce when we get coverage of the opening TRS round, next Friday after sports tonight, so 11pm-ish, brilliant, best series running at T1 at the moment and that's what we get.

Promax, I know there are quite a few ST cars hitting the track in the next 10 days. Exciting times for the class.

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by Stockman

I don't see anyone bleating about MSNZ deciding the rules, it's their job.
If they stuck to that then fine.

Creating rules = creating classes. Then you must promote those classes.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Creating rules = creating classes. Then you must promote those classes.

I don't necessarily agree - MSNZ is a regulatory and administrative body. It creates rules for safety and technical issues. It creates general compliance rules for cars such as Schedule K, Schedule T&C etc. This doesn't mean it gets involved in the commercial business of running events.

This is possibly where things started to go wrong with the NZV8s. TMC had the commercial rights to run Tier 1 and they effectively had a monopoly as the body that granted the rights to run Tier 1 (MSNZ) was the major shareholder in TMC - it was a closed shop with no one else able to get a look in.

If we then look at the SuperTourer split. I think TMC got a bit complacent with their monopoly of running Tier 1 and let things slip - this created the environment that provided the opportunity for a breakaway - this would not have happened if the NZV8 product was robust, up to date and satisfied entrants, drivers and the public. There must be a message that the previous regime (TMC) didn't have it right, in that so many entrants, drivers and sponsors joined the split.

If MSNZ did not have a majority commercial interest in TMC, then the rights for Tier 1 would have been subject to a competitive bidding process every 3 to 5 years and the holder of the rights would have to be more proactive and not get complacent.

This matter has been raised at MSNZ annual conference on a number of occasions but to no avail.

[Stockman]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Creating rules = creating classes. Then you must promote those classes.

I think this statement only applies to NZV8.
I am not aware of any other recent classes that have been CREATED by MSNZ.
Porsche..Don't think so
V8 Utes..don't think so
Suzuki.. Don't think so
Mini Challenge..don't think so
Toyota..don't think so
Although it is creating a new V8 class. Why....

You would have to question whether they would apply the same rules to NZV8 they did with other classes over three last few seasons, that have fallen away.
Guarantee min numbers or be removed from the T1.
It appears there is a rule for NZV8's and another for all other classes.
Is this what MSNZ is all about.

[Stockman]

Originally Posted by RogerH

It
If MSNZ did not have a majority commercial interest in TMC, then the rights for Tier 1 would have been subject to a competitive bidding process every 3 to 5 years and the holder of the rights would have to be more proactive and not get complacent.

This matter has been raised at MSNZ annual conference on a number of occasions but to no avail.

Agree 100%... club members and clubs have to make more of an effort to make MSNZ aware of the general feeling out there.

These posts are deviating from the NZV8 forum, and probably deserves a forum of it's own.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Stockman

Agree 100%... club members and clubs have to make more of an effort to make MSNZ aware of the general feeling out there.

These posts are deviating from the NZV8 forum, and probably deserves a forum of it's own.

Don't know if it is deviating that far from NZV8s - a major factor in the position NZV8s now find themselves in is probably due to the relationship between NZV8 and Tier 1, Tier 1 and TMC and then TMC and MSNZ - they are all linked. If MSNZ didn't have a commercial interest in TMC/NZV8 this whole NZV8/SuperTourer debacle may not have happened.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

Just saw Shaun announce when we get coverage of the opening TRS round, next Friday after sports tonight, so 11pm-ish, brilliant, best series running at T1 at the moment and that's what we get.

crazy, eh?

[smokin'joe]

slightly off topic................ but did anyone actually watch the racing today?? only watched the wet last race but quality, not quantity.

[promax]

yeah i did

[CDM]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

slightly off topic................ but did anyone actually watch the racing today?? only watched the wet last race but quality, not quantity.

Agreed! Only takes 2 or 3 cars to still make a good race...

[Biggy G]

http://www.nzracer.com/motorsport-nz...continues.html

A pretty good write up on the current situation.

[Stockman]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

http://www.nzracer.com/motorsport-nz...continues.html

A pretty good write up on the current situation.

NZ Racer sums up the situation exactly..

Quote V8ST:
Older V8 racing cars from Holden and Ford – set to be entirely phased out of top line motorsport within two seasons – could find a new home alongside the exciting new V8 SuperTourer series in a new championship called the V8 Challenge Cup.

Quote MSNZ:
For the 2013-14 season only the new model with the new engine and gearbox will be eligible for the BNT NZV8 championship. Existing cars will contest a separate series.

Technically V8ST are correct, the existing cars will be phased out of top line motorsport in 2013-14.
MSNZ have shown many times everything outside of NZV8's is a support class only.

So why not play in the V8ST sandpit... they appear to have structured their regs to make the racing cheaper, MSNZ are only going to get the backs up of those competitors who want to go racing where they will get the best value for money by waving the big "I own the TL specs" and "you do what we say" stick.
Not good for anyone.

[promax]

the ST lot were crying about how expensive a NZV8 is to run... now all of a sudden they're a cheap form of motorsport?

amusing!!

[Stockman]

Originally Posted by promax

the ST lot were crying about how expensive a NZV8 is to run... now all of a sudden they're a cheap form of motorsport?

amusing!!

Again quote V8ST:
"A series with many cost effective technical solutions to lessen the cost of running a current New Zealand V8 touring car, such as reduced engine rev limit and a cost effective controlled tyre, being implemented for the new series."

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Stockman

Again quote V8ST:
"A series with many cost effective technical solutions to lessen the cost of running a current New Zealand V8 touring car, such as reduced engine rev limit and a cost effective controlled tyre, being implemented for the new series."

so are they gonna de-tune them so they can run them on Ling Long tyres without excessive wheelspin?

[MacrosNZ]

Hankooks

[RogerH]

Despite all the prophecies made on this an other forums as to the merits and future of NZV8/MRX versus SuperTourers, all we need to do is wait six months and see how many pay across the $$ for an MRX and how many SuperTourers turn up on their grids. This will be the determinate of which faction survives and which one is relegated to the trash bin.
The entrants with the $$ to buy the cars, the sponsors with their $$ to help pay the way and the spectators with their $$ to attend the races and get the TV ratings will make the ultimate decision. It's the old story - "follow the $$".

[promax]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

so are they gonna de-tune them so they can run them on Ling Long tyres without excessive wheelspin?

no contact, 100km speed limit and indicating when passing would also help to reduce costs.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by promax

no contact, 100km speed limit and indicating when passing would also help to reduce costs.

sounds like a proactive way of reducing costs. does that mean they will start using the esses onto the front straight at Levels, with all cars yeilding to the right ?