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Old 7 Feb 2017, 12:53 (Ref:3710693)   #1
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spider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridspider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just how good was Damon Hill?

A few of the guys here in our office were debating this after he popped up on Sky F1 earlier.

Looking how he fared against an ageing Prost, briefly against Senna you wouldn't say he was 'that' strong. Against Coulthard / Villeneuve / Ralf he obviously came out on top, before getting tanked by Frentzen.

Suzuka 94 was remarkable. Hungary 97 though was, for me, given the weakness of that car, was surely one of the great drives.

Not really sure where he fits - I kinda see him as a Rosberg-level driver in 2016 terms.

Just wondered, with the International group of people on here, what people thought of him talent-wise.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 12:55 (Ref:3710695)   #2
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A strong development driver (who do you think helped create the 1993 Williams?), not top tier when it came to wheel-to-wheel battles. Then again, he came from bike racing into single seaters relatively late, so he followed an unconventional path.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 13:58 (Ref:3710705)   #3
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'd say good on his own, not so good in traffic especially when lapping.
My memory is of him in the Thruxton fields in a F3 car on a Test day in either 86 or 87, came over as a really nice bloke.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 14:33 (Ref:3710706)   #4
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bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
his most recent book is a good read if you want to add some context to his story
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 14:56 (Ref:3710709)   #5
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Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Not very. Almost lost to a rookie team mate. Almost lost to DC who had suffered several car failures when leading in 95. Neither JV or DC are that good and Damon didn't exactly destroy them.

Lovely guy. Got lucky to come in when Prost and then sadly Senna weren't around, Schumacher went off to wrestle a Ferrari. Couple of years earlier or later and history would've been completely different.

Nice guy. Not a bad driver. But hey, you could use the same argument to say he made the best of it when he had the chance. What more could you ask for?
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 15:08 (Ref:3710712)   #6
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If you look at attempts to place him in an all-time list, he seems to come in the mid-30s overall.
A fairly scientific approach here places him at 35.
A journalist places him at 39 here.

Interestingly, he places higher than his father in both lists.

The scientific approach (at the time of publishing) places Nico Rosberg much higher at No.7 - even before his title.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 15:21 (Ref:3710713)   #7
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Having seen Graham race many times, against Clark amongst many others, I always saw Damon as pretty much like his Dad, neither had that extra something that one saw in Jimmy and Senna (for instance), but had tremendous determination, and a will to win that frequently overcame 'better' drivers. Both made the very best of what nature had endowed them with.

Unlikely that either would make a top ten, but both highly motivated, determined, and ultimately successful Grand Prix drivers. Both deserve credit for achieving World Titles when more talented drivers were on the same grids.

Personally I never see the point of trying to rank driver from different era's in some kind of list. In period both should/could rank in top ten against their competition.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 15:40 (Ref:3710715)   #8
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Whilst many people decry the current state of F1, Damon Hill was driving during the abjectly boring mid-90s period when overtaking happened mainly during pitstops and Micheal Schumacher dominated and TGFs teammates were often not allowed to compete against him. It was left to Damon Hill to be pretty much the only person to regularly take the fight to TGF over a number of seasons. If it were not for Hill, what was already a pretty lacklustre period in F1 history would have been even worse.

Damon Hill probably would have been a multiple WDC if it were not for the once in a generation talent of Michael Schumacher. I rate Damon Hill very highly, but he was not superhuman like Senna and Schumacher (but hey, who is?).


(OH - and I don't think you should read too much into his final season at Jordan - He pretty much admitted that the fire had gone from his belly at that point of his career, and he should have retired before then)
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 16:03 (Ref:3710723)   #9
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And he could be supreme in qualifying. I can vividly recall him sitting in the car in the garage, with his eyes shut tight, whilst mentally picturing the best way to complete a lap. And then he would go out at the very last moment, and snatch pole. Masterful, and usually understated.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 16:32 (Ref:3710727)   #10
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Better than most people give him credit for, especially given the circumstances at Williams in 1994. I've got his book which I'm looking forward to reading.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 17:30 (Ref:3710740)   #11
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I've read Damon's recent autobiography and its very good.

Could have been a double World Champion, but it is hard to compare drivers. Mika Hakkinen for example, who was in F1 at the same time, won 20 races but 2 titles whilst Damon won 22 races and 1 title in 40 less races than Hakkinen.

I agree with above that Hungary 97 was perhaps one of if not his best ever drive. He also had his moments such as Brazil 96 in the rain.

A what if I know but if he stayed with Williams for 97 & 98 and then retired he would be remembered differently. I think that year at Arrows and his final year at Jordan tarnish his record somewhat.

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Old 8 Feb 2017, 09:04 (Ref:3710900)   #12
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Like many single world champions he is vastly under-rated I think.

He was at the top of his game within a few races of being with Williams and only really let it slip for a few races with Arrows (and who can blame him driving that turd and for Walkinshaw) and the final year at Jordan. He didn't hang around as I am sure he could have and when he was good he was capable of beating anyone.

He came up against one of the dirtiest opponents of the time, who continued and actually went further with Senna's policy of contact with rivals being fine and also had to deal with being a team leader by default and a rival team that was cheating for years.

I think he handled it with grace, humour often and decency as you would expect. People forget he was also bloody quick, Had the beating most of times of all his team-mates including Senna, Prost Mansell. Drove with his head.

I think his biggest failing was overtaking, he never seemed to be sure at times and made some daft moves in desperation almost. And he allowed himself to get into the daft stuff with Schumacher whereas guys like Hakkinen did not. I am sure Schuey did not respect Damon as a true rival and thought himself better for some reason, he felt I think Hakkinen was a true rival for him as Senna was and was maybe even faster, Hill he felt superior too though, and did not respect in my eyes.

Other than that, a worthy double world champion (I discount 94 myself for MS as the team cheated and he should have been dumped from the results with what he did) a fast man, a gentleman, and a good family man.

Not too sure about his punditry though!!

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Old 8 Feb 2017, 11:48 (Ref:3710945)   #13
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How good was Damon Hill? Let's break it down season by season

He did a remarkable job to get the Brabham onto the grid at Silverstone and Hungaroring in 92 considering the team was on borrowed time and hardly got onto the grid at all

In 1993 he learned from Prost and got faster as the season went on. He was on course to win in France, but for a slow pitstop, then at the British GP his engine blew with victory in sight, then at Germany the same this time with a puncture. It finally came right at Hungary, following on with wins at Belgium and Italy, the former after managing to hold off Schuey. At Portugal he worked his way up from the back to finish third and so was given the seat alongside Senna for 94

In 94 much like his father did after Clark's death, he managed to lift the team follwing Senna's death and even though he benefited from Schumacher being stuck in fifth gear to win in Spain, it was the least he and the team deserved. His win in Japan was the best ever, and he continued that performance into Adelaide, pressuring Schumacher all race long till Schuey made a mistake and then the two collided. Opinion's split on whether it was deliberate or not, but truth is Hill and Williams didn't want the title, as they felt Senna should have been the person to challenge for the title.

95 didn't start too bad, but then collisions with Schuey, not always his fault, for example he was unhappy with Schuey's tactics at Spa and mistakes like at Hockenheim and Suzuka ruined his season. His win in Adelaide allowed him to start fresh for 96

1996 he put in more effort and despite a few lacklustre performances managed to keep his talented rookie Villenueve at bay to take a well deserved title. His performance at Brazil was probably the best of the season. Sadly the damage had already been done from 95 and so he was dropped by Williams.

1997 was a character building season, but he didn't give up and his near win at Hungary proved why he was of the best drivers of that era

1998 started poorly, but things started to pick up from Canada when he ran as high as second and then mid season he started to pick up points and then won at Belgium, helped by the Schumacher/Coulthard incident, but still he had qualified on the second row and he managed to keep it on the circuit. In the end he was just one point behind Villeneuve in the championship

1999 was one season too far. Although there were hints of his old self at Britain, Hungary and Belgium, it was clear he just wanted to get out and would have done mid season ala James Hunt if EJ had let him. It was a sad end to a great career

So he wasn't the greatest, but he worked hard to compete and beat the best on more than one occasion. The way he built himself up by getting faster lap by lap in quali was the stuff of legends and people forget he would have been on pole in Jerez 97 if he hadn't been baulked at the final corner. A gentleman, with a dry sense of humour and good manners on the track, unless he needed to give as he good he got like with Schumacher in Canada 98
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 16:26 (Ref:3710988)   #14
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Like many single world champions he is vastly under-rated I think.

He was at the top of his game within a few races of being with Williams and only really let it slip for a few races with Arrows (and who can blame him driving that turd and for Walkinshaw) and the final year at Jordan. He didn't hang around as I am sure he could have and when he was good he was capable of beating anyone.

He came up against one of the dirtiest opponents of the time, who continued and actually went further with Senna's policy of contact with rivals being fine and also had to deal with being a team leader by default and a rival team that was cheating for years.

I think he handled it with grace, humour often and decency as you would expect. People forget he was also bloody quick, Had the beating most of times of all his team-mates including Senna, Prost Mansell. Drove with his head.

I think his biggest failing was overtaking, he never seemed to be sure at times and made some daft moves in desperation almost. And he allowed himself to get into the daft stuff with Schumacher whereas guys like Hakkinen did not. I am sure Schuey did not respect Damon as a true rival and thought himself better for some reason, he felt I think Hakkinen was a true rival for him as Senna was and was maybe even faster, Hill he felt superior too though, and did not respect in my eyes.

Other than that, a worthy double world champion (I discount 94 myself for MS as the team cheated and he should have been dumped from the results with what he did) a fast man, a gentleman, and a good family man.

Not too sure about his punditry though!!
I'd go along with pretty much all of that except the beating of teammates part.

He touches on it in the book which is one of the better ones in recent times, but whilst he felt fairly confident he could take it to Alain from time to time (even though he knew Prost wasn't at full tilt most of the '93 season) he was pretty quickly aware that Senna was something else entirely!

Damon said that he was thinking pre season that he would have been pleased as punch if he had managed to outqualify Ayrton a couple of times and even finished ahead of him once or twice but after testing and the first 2 races he had to think that was going to be highly unlikely.

Damon did not understand how Ayrton qualified that FW16 on pole, it was a terrible car to drive early on that year and Damon was honoured to be his teammate. Class.

With the others, DC and JV were rookies, but both were usually quicker even if results didn't always go their way.

As a side note, Damon also mentioned that his toughest teammate wasn't any of his F1 teammates, but Martin Donnelly, who like Johnny Herbert, Damon felt was extremely good and both could have gone on to great things had fate not played its part in their careers.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 19:37 (Ref:3711010)   #15
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I think he was massively lucky throughout his career. That doesn't make him bad, he's not, but I wouldn't say he's the finest champion. It's really just his final season where he wasn't good.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 21:37 (Ref:3711045)   #16
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A strong development driver (who do you think helped create the 1993 Williams?), not top tier when it came to wheel-to-wheel battles. Then again, he came from bike racing into single seaters relatively late, so he followed an unconventional path.
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Better than most people give him credit for, especially given the circumstances at Williams in 1994. I've got his book which I'm looking forward to reading.
A combination of those two. Very good as a car sorter, arguably he won the championship because the car he helped develop was outstandingly good, and was so because of his development work.

He could also be extremely belligerent on track. Those that criticise his wheel-to-wheel nous tend to do so from the point of view of attacking, but overlook his skill in defence. I remember him in an awful Lola F3000 at Brands holding off a huge pack until his tyres gave up the unequal struggle.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 23:33 (Ref:3711061)   #17
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JABWOA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unlike the naturally gifted, he had to work hard to get there and stay there.
Did good work at Williams as thier tester and therefore was the right person at the right time when the plumb drive came up, next to Prost.
Also humble.

I was a MS fan from Spa '92 so Hill was the enemy but reading articles by Damon since (particularly about Adelaide 95) shows his true character.
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Old 9 Feb 2017, 07:23 (Ref:3711143)   #18
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As a driver he was top drawer , but not in the elevated class of the Clarks , Stewarts, Prosts and Sennas etc. But very firmly in the Hulme, Rosberg (father and son ) ,Reutemann, Webber ,Button and Raikkonnen class.

As a man - very smart, extraordinarily articulate and , almost uniquely in F1 , prepared to acknowldege some drivers were better than he was.

His book is the best driver autobiography I have read, the only one whcih comes close is Peter Revson's Speed with Style .

He is a man I admire immensely .
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Old 9 Feb 2017, 10:04 (Ref:3711171)   #19
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Very much appreciate the analysis given above by s griffin, have to say that made me value his achievement of the championship more than previously.

He did not bring direct funding (so far as I know) although the teams were probably able to use the name in sponsorship negotiations and as he was not a big winner in lower formulae seemed to slip in quietly to F1. From there had to fight for it, as did Graham so well done.

Certainly a Gent and as I got the book for Christmas must now find time to read it
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Old 9 Feb 2017, 10:39 (Ref:3711179)   #20
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Interesting he notes Donnelly as his toughest team mate, as there's no doubt the talent of Martin was plain for all to see. It's such a shame what happened. Of course them two were part of the 'Rat Pack' which I read about in Perry McCarthy's autobiography.
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Old 9 Feb 2017, 11:33 (Ref:3711191)   #21
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Can someone give me a link to the book you are referring to?
Seems like a good and honest read, so I'm quite interesting in putting it on my wish-list.
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Old 9 Feb 2017, 13:59 (Ref:3711223)   #22
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"Damon Hill, Watching the Wheels" published by MacMillon, see www.panmacmillon.com, ISBN 978-1-5098-3190-6
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Old 9 Feb 2017, 15:33 (Ref:3711233)   #23
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"Damon Hill, Watching the Wheels" published by MacMillon, see www.panmacmillon.com, ISBN 978-1-5098-3190-6
I ordered my copy two days ago. Just waiting for it to be delivered!

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Old 11 Feb 2017, 03:47 (Ref:3711481)   #24
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matherto should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Was a huge Damon fan growing up so to me he was brilliant regardless.

However, currently watching through the 1994 season and about to go into 1995 and it's bringing a few faults to light.

Firstly I remember the times he took Schumacher out in 95 were out of desperation against a much better driver and he made a few mistakes under pressure when he should've had the title sewn up in 1996 too (Monza whilst leading at the first chicane for one).

In 1994 he wasn't on a par with Schumacher at all, it was only due to the bans and other shenanigans that the last race came to be as significant as it was.

He also couldn't deal with traffic whatsoever. Coulthard in his own team really shows him up in that regard. Damon used to lose gobs of time to Schumacher, Coulthard and so on due to being held up in traffic he couldn't navigate properly.

That said, he was good enough to win 20+ Grand Prix, a World Championship and his drive at the 1994 Japanese GP remains one of the all time greats.
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Old 11 Feb 2017, 16:57 (Ref:3711558)   #25
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He was a strong driver rather than a fast one and one that was quite old when he got in so he was never one of the 'hot' drivers as such. He was quite lucky to get the Williams gig. I know he was their tester and stuff but it was an extraordinary promotion from pottering around at the back with Brabham nevertheless. He should've beat Schumacher given Schumacher had only these little Fords and with all of Schumacher's legal melodramas in 94 though. But he did well with his stuff and got his WC in the end.

I enjoyed his career, liked the man and he can hold his head high. His biog is on the shelf and in the queue for my holiday reads later in the year.
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Damon Hill's first F1 drive Adam43 Motorsport History 26 27 Mar 2002 13:25
Damon Hill to race for Minardi?? steve nielsen Formula One 3 1 Apr 2001 11:20


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