[LM24] 2009 Practice and Qualifying changes

[GT6]

Has anyone heard if there will be any bands playing again this year, as no practice on Wednesday I doubt we will have the same format as last year but if anyone has heard any gossip I would be interested to know.

[The Badger]

No practice on wednesday ? Where did you hear that from ?

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by The Badger

No practice on wednesday ? Where did you hear that from ?

GT6 will probably give us chapter and verse, but I seem to recall an announcement from the ACO to this effect, along with news of the abolition of the test day at the beginning of June.

Does anyone know if this also means that there's no "day off" on Friday and that practice will now be held on Thursday evening and Friday evening?

[Nordic]

Wednesday will still be a practice day, but no Q times will be taken. The cars will not be made to run.

Thursday will be Q. So all drivers will need to drive. I see problems ahead!

Friday will be rest day as normal.

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Nordic

Wednesday will still be a practice day, but no Q times will be taken. The cars will not be made to run.

Thursday will be Q. So all drivers will need to drive. I see problems ahead!

Friday will be rest day as normal.

"Problems" is an understatement!

If there are just the usual 2 x 2 hours for qualifying on Thursday, then I can see some teams struggling. 165 drivers to qualify in half the usual time. Even allowing for the fact that some set-up work will take place on Wednesday, there will surely be some teams/drivers that don't make it.

[Adam43]

This one turned into a Q&P discussion. Discussion on the band situation can be found here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113175

[Nordic]

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...lier_fr_gb.pdf

The provisional timetable is on the ACO site.

In addition to that,

The regs state that all drivers need to complete 3 laps at night. In the past drivers who have completed before are exempt I thought, is this still the case?

Drivers can swap between cars of the same team, but if I am reading it right the car must then start at the back of the grid?

I really cant see it working at all well and it seems a pointless change to the Q sessions. The lack of the practice days is not a huge problem IMHO, there have been plenty of years they did not take place and we stil had 2 days of Q.

[zac510]

edit: Nordic just added the driver rules

[deggis]

Page 10:

Number and use of engines:
Only one engine must be used for the qualifying practice session, the warm-up and the race on a car regularly entered

Is this new? At least the same article (7.4.3 – The seals on the engine) can be found from the technical regulations too and that was addition for 2009.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by deggis

Page 10:

Number and use of engines:
Only one engine must be used for the qualifying practice session, the warm-up and the race on a car regularly entered

Is this new? At least the same article (7.4.3 – The seals on the engine) can be found from the technical regulations too and that was addition for 2009.

This was my post on the Le Mans 2009 thread (posted just before Adam split the 'Concert' thread:

Following on from the interesting (but off topic ) discussions in the 'Concerts' thread, it will indeed be intriguing to see how the revised scheduling pans out for the teams.

Rookie drivers; will they have to complete a mandatory 10 laps on the Wednesday?

Night laps; I suspect there will be a number of teams unable to give each of their drivers the required 3 laps in the dark. Granted, that's no different to previous years, but the reduced running time with the Test Day cancellation will likely exacerbate the situation.

Qualifying; could be a bit of a non-event. I believe a substantial number of teams will look for one or two respectable laps early in the second Thursday session, preferring to preserve the engine (remember, just one engine allowed this year) and car and concentrate on race set up.

I reckon the officials will need to show considerably more leniancy and understanding than the rules allow if we're to see 55 cars take the start at 3pm Saturday. My guess is that some very unlikely names will feature amongst the cars at the back of the starting grid come race day.

In answer to your question, yes, new for 2009 and clearly related to the 2 races per engine stipulation in the Le Mans Series regs which has been introduced for this year.

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Nordic

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...lier_fr_gb.pdf

The provisional timetable is on the ACO site.

In addition to that,

The regs state that all drivers need to complete 3 laps at night. In the past drivers who have completed before are exempt I thought, is this still the case?

Drivers can swap between cars of the same team, but if I am reading it right the car must then start at the back of the grid?

I really cant see it working at all well and it seems a pointless change to the Q sessions. The lack of the practice days is not a huge problem IMHO, there have been plenty of years they did not take place and we stil had 2 days of Q.

The web page you quote does indeed show the provisional timetable and untimed practice on Wednesday. That page is dated December 08

However, at:

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...raires_fr.html

which is dated 5th January this year, the normal "Essais Qualificants" are shown as being held on both Wednesday and Thursday as usual.

A slip of the word processor, or have they indeed reverted to the standard timetable?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

In answer to your question, yes, new for 2009 and clearly related to the 2 races per engine stipulation in the Le Mans Series regs which has been introduced for this year.

The 2-race engine rule, that's what I was thinking.

I can't find supplementary regulations for LMS from lemans-series.com, not released yet? In the "Seals on the engine" article it is mentioned that use and number of engines will be defined in the supplementary regulations.

And I wonder if this is only temporary cost saving solultion for 2009 or definitive rule change.

And what about ALMS? And how... since the different race lengths. Where in the rules it should be mentioned if it has been adapted? Not mentioned in the bulletins (just checked them all) and I can't find anything related to it from the full rules (2009 ALMS RULES 2nd ED V2.0.pdf, altough I only used search function, searching for word "seal").

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

A slip of the word processor, or have they indeed reverted to the standard timetable?

Fingers crossed they have seen sense and reverted to the proper format!

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

However, at:

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...raires_fr.html

which is dated 5th January this year, the normal "Essais Qualificants" are shown as being held on both Wednesday and Thursday as usual.

A slip of the word processor, or have they indeed reverted to the standard timetable?

It is now updated (26/02/2009), unfortunately back to the "practice on wednesday" format.

Why can't they simply make a rule change that drivers can do the required laps during the practice too?

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by deggis

It is now updated (26/02/2009), unfortunately back to the "practice on wednesday" format.

Why can't they simply make a rule change that drivers can do the required laps during the practice too?

Thanks.

Is it possible that someone at the ACO reads this forum and has realised their mistake?

[deggis]

I don't know if I have totally misunderstood something but...

6.1.4 - The list of the drivers automatically admitted to take part in the
qualifying practice sessions is published in the appendix (appendix X).
The drivers not included on this list are required to take part in the
Free Practice session, and cover on this occasion a minimum of 10
(ten) laps of the racetrack, in order to be allowed to participate in
the qualifying practice sessions

9.3 - Nominated drivers must :
[...]
9.3.3 - Complete a minimum of 3 laps at night (including laps leaving and
entering the pits).

...where is it described that only Thursday night qualification is regarded as "night time" now that the schedule is different this year? Why laps made during the wednesday practice between 10-12 pm shouldn't be counted towards that required 3 night laps!?

[Kpy]

The regs refer to "official practice sessions" and to "qualifying practice sessions" with no explanation as to the difference (if any). I think we shall have to wait for the Supplementary Regulations, which have yet to be published, but which must appear at least two months before the race.

[deggis]

That copy-paste is from the supplementary regulations (and was posted on the previous page by Nordic)

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...lier_fr_gb.pdf

[Kpy]

Thanks deggis. I couln't get the SRs to download before. Done now. From reading them I'm sure you are right and that all practice sessions are included for the driver qualification requirements.

[kdr]

Despite him being branded slightly erratic and irresponsible elsewhere i'm already looking forward to T.Enge exiting the pitlane on Thursday evening at 23.50pm.

Some traditions are worth waiting for!

[Aysedasi]

Well, I'm still pretty confused over all of this - but what's new!

[kdr]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Well, I'm still pretty confused over all of this - but what's new!

Rumour is you never make it for qualifying anyway Ayse....something that has to be rectified at some point!

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Kpy

Thanks deggis. I couln't get the SRs to download before. Done now. From reading them I'm sure you are right and that all practice sessions are included for the driver qualification requirements.

All bound to lead to trouble if you ask me!