FIA Bans Map Changes Between Quali & Race

[Spritle]

The whole idea that these supposed rules infractions were not rules infractions until the 8th race of the season when things like the double diffuser & F duct remained until season's end make this whole ban suspect IMHO. The true intent is as obvious as the rubbish rules implemented when Ferrari was dominating.

Somehow I have a feeling if the championship was closer or a certain silver team was doing a tad better, this would be postponed until season's end like it should be.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

This remains to be seen. Now the starting grid is even more likely to be ordered to the relative race pace. Hence, the fastest car in the race is more likely to start from pole position. And how are drivers going to overtake a faster one? This is one of the main reasons why I still oppose the post-qualifying parc fermé. I consider this piece of legislation to be against the spirit of motorsport.

Fastest pole should probably win the race anyway, and would do if there were not pitstops.

Overtaking a faster car? Since when has that been possible? Even with DRS?

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Whether it is banning off-throttle EBD or changing engine settings between qualifying and race, I maintain there are no rule change here. The FIA has judged these practises to be against the existing rules. From a legal standing point, I think the FIA is right on this one.

As I wrote in the other topic regarding EBD, teams understandably erred about the legality of the EBD. However, I doubt whether teams did so with changing the engine maps between qualifying and race too. Since 2003 in principle any work to the car is prohibited. The regulations limitatively allow specific work to be done. With the wording and purpose of this legislation, no other interpretation seem to be possible and I fail to see how teams were ever allowed to change engine maps between qualifying and race.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Fastest pole should probably win the race anyway, and would do if there were not pitstops.

Overtaking a faster car? Since when has that been possible? Even with DRS?

I disagree. In 2002 Juan Pablo Montoya started six times from pole position, but didn't win any race and hence lacked race. However, as he started from pole position he had to be overtaken by faster cars. With the post-qualifying parc fermé banning any work to be done, this is less likely to happen. A driver who seriously lacks race performance, won't be able to start at the head of the starting grid.

[Sodemo]

Why don't they ban start maps while there at it? I mean can anyone give me a legitimate reason why they even have start procedure maps? Maps which are designed to give them less wheelspin? Make them use the regular race map and let them work for a living, control the wheelspin with your right foot, not an engine map.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Why don't they ban start maps while there at it? I mean can anyone give me a legitimate reason why they even have start procedure maps? Maps which are designed to give them less wheelspin? Make them use the regular race map and let them work for a living, control the wheelspin with your right foot, not an engine map.

Engine mapping doesn't prevent wheel spin, it only helps the driver get the best out of the engine. And as drivers are already able to alter the rev-limiter and fuel mixture, why shouldn't they be allowed to change the engine map?

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

And as drivers are already able to alter the rev-limiter and fuel mixture, why shouldn't they be allowed to change the engine map?

I thought you were arguing that drivers shouldn't be able to change engine maps?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Drivers have three engine maps available to them. It takes about a mandatory 90 seconds to change the engine map. With the current interpretation of the regulations, teams won't be allowed to install one or more new engine maps between qualifying and race. With the current regulations containing the post-qualifying parc fermé this ruling is legally correct.

One could argue about the desirability of this ruling from an entertainment point of view. However, that's another discussion.

Thanks Pingguest - I was unaware that they were restricted to 3 maps.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

As I wrote in the other topic regarding EBD, teams understandably erred about the legality of the EBD. However, I doubt whether teams did so with changing the engine maps between qualifying and race too. Since 2003 in principle any work to the car is prohibited. The regulations limitatively allow specific work to be done. With the wording and purpose of this legislation, no other interpretation seem to be possible and I fail to see how teams were ever allowed to change engine maps between qualifying and race.

I disagree with you on the legality of EBDs, but agree with the rest!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

maybe i missed something in the article (or more likely have no idea what they are talking about) but this seems like it will have more of an adverse effect on every team except for Red Bull.

im just guessing but in trying to keep up with Red Bull, the other teams are forced to be more aggressive in qualifying and hence taking more advantage of this specific engine mapping strategy. in fact to me it sounds like something the teams trying to make the 107% cut off would be most willing to do.

again this bit of technical talk is lost on me, but would i be correct in saying that this is more of a problem the further back on the grid you go?

If this is correct and Red Bull's dominance increases ... lmao!

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Engine mapping doesn't prevent wheel spin, it only helps the driver get the best out of the engine. And as drivers are already able to alter the rev-limiter and fuel mixture, why shouldn't they be allowed to change the engine map?

Oh right, i'm a little confused though. Why is it then that we no longer see drivers lighting up the rears - billowing smoke off a start?

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Oh right, i'm a little confused though. Why is it then that we no longer see drivers lighting up the rears - billowing smoke off a start?

I think that is mainly because they have a different clutch map, in combination with a rev limit, at the start which allows a controlled amount of slipping. The clutch and the diff are both electronically controlled, but I don't think their control comes under the same umbrella as engine mapping.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Oh right, i'm a little confused though. Why is it then that we no longer see drivers lighting up the rears - billowing smoke off a start?

Because they spend more time practising their starts? Any driver knows spinning up isnt the quickest way off the line.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I thought you were arguing that drivers shouldn't be able to change engine maps?

Within the current regulations teams shouldn't be allowed to install new engine maps between qualifying and race, because of the post-qualifying parc fermé. However, I see no reason not to allow drivers to choose between the already installed maps.

[Marbot]

The FIA have just released the full article which tells you what is and isn't allowed with regard to engine maps. From what I can gather, there are no additional original maps supported by the ECU.

"The teams are not allowed to make any changes with a computer that they plug in. The drivers are still allowed to change things from the steering wheel [however] the single ECU only supports fine adjustments from the steering wheel.

In very general terms, anything that can be done from the wheel is OK; anything they need to connect a computer for is not.

We are on the verge of issuing a note to the teams to give them a list of things that they can change when they connect their computers but that will be a very limited list."

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...ges/cw-qa.aspx

[Mr V]

Well, if the idea is to slow Red Bull down in qulai, it didn't work!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Well, if the idea is to slow Red Bull down in qulai, it didn't work!

No it didn't, but I never thought it would.

The Red Bull car isn't all that reliant on the off throttle exhaust blowing. It's still a very good a good car without that. I would say that Mercedes, Renault and to perhaps a lesser extent McLaren, all rely on it much more than Red Bull do. Ferrari were the ones who pushed more than the other top teams for it to be changed, so we know which camp they lie in. And it's all pretty much turned out that way when you look at the starting grid for this race.

[stripedcat]

It didn't slow the Red Bulls down! Do people think it did slow do the McLarens, though? Or do they just eat their tyres more in hot weather?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

It didn't slow the Red Bulls down! Do people think it did slow do the McLarens, though? Or do they just eat their tyres more in hot weather?

I suppose that you have to ask yourself whereabouts it is that McLaren's exhausts exit and why that might tie in with increased rear tyre wear.

[bravo]

Originally Posted by luke g28

Because they spend more time practising their starts? Any driver knows spinning up isnt the quickest way off the line.

I thought I heard Brundle/Coulthard saying they switched to a map at the start which helped with the start. Reduced torque to help stop wheel spin or something. Perhaps I'm mistaken?

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by bravo

I thought I heard Brundle/Coulthard saying they switched to a map at the start which helped with the start. Reduced torque to help stop wheel spin or something. Perhaps I'm mistaken?

If you meant pre start in Valencia, they were talking about configuring the bite point by assessing exactly how much wear was on the clutch etc.

[Mr V]

Wonder what the FIA will come up with next to try and slow down the Red Bulls?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Wonder what the FIA will come up with next to try and slow down the Red Bulls?

No tyres for the pole position ?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Wonder what the FIA will come up with next to try and slow down the Red Bulls?

Or speed up another car, perhaps.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92691

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92692

It's really down to Pirelli though, which tyres it takes to a race....isn't it?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It's really down to Pirelli though, which tyres it takes to a race....isn't it?

Looks like Pirelli holds all the cards for the championship, isn't it ?

Who could tell...