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4 Aug 2011, 09:15 (Ref:2935695) | #1 | ||
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Can you tell the difference?!!
Hi,
We all in motor sports there are two type of cars, Production based ones like WRC cars, stock / NASCAR, WTCC, Silhouettes (Like the Megane Trophy) and other GT and LeMan GTs. However there is another class of cars they look like Single seaters with fenders; The Prototypes. What is it that distinguishes the prototype from others? It is not the Canopy because we have the GrandAm prototypes and some LeMan protos come with a canopy too. So what is it?! -For example; Is the Ford GT considered a GT or a prototype? -Is the Zonda that once had the nurburgring record a prototype or a GT? -What about Lambourghini? Is this a GT?! -Now catch this; is the Ferrari FXX a prototype or a GT?!! At some cars it is obvious but with others it is just so confusing, that is why I Love ASTON MARTIN, they are purly GT, Font engine rear drive, loooooog classic hood short cabin and fast and sexy. Can any one define what the other cars are? It is little confusing. Cheers |
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4 Aug 2011, 09:40 (Ref:2935703) | #2 | ||
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4 Aug 2011, 09:49 (Ref:2935707) | #3 | ||
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Pretty much what Alexkiller said.
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4 Aug 2011, 13:03 (Ref:2935788) | #4 | ||
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A manufacturer with a prestigious name will sometimes be able to launch a race car for the road and sell enough to customers/get it homologated for GT racing because of the badge on it. Now as to whether it's a GT or a prototype, there's always a gray zone that keeps moving as time makes advanced technology more common. Examples:
-the Dauer 962 raced in a road car class because Porsche was behind it. It was a lightly modified Group C prototype car, but when compared to the GT1s that followed (911 GT1, CLK-GTR, GT-One, Saleen, Maserati MC12) it was not that high-tech -the Maserati MC12 was an extreme Enzo built around a carbon tub and it had little to envy to previous all-out GT1s and Group Cs. It was not supposed to be legal for GT racing but the Maserati name meant it got to play with more conventional GT1s -the Pagani Zonda R is not even road-legal, it's not legal in GT racing and it has nothing to envy to previous all-out GT1s and Group Cs. Also, just like the Maserati, its body has overhangs and general dimensions that you don't see on proper road cars because they're in no way practical for the road but rather meant to generate downforce -and nowadays you have the 458 Italia and the MP4-12C that have equal tech (and pace) to the late 1990s GT1s and are real road cars at the same time. They can outpace a McLaren F1 - the car that was so fast in GT racing that everyone else had to show up with prototypes to stand a chance GT or a prototype: there's always a gray zone that keeps moving as time makes advanced technology more common. In 15 years time we might see a road Audi R18... |
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4 Aug 2011, 13:49 (Ref:2935805) | #5 | ||
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4 Aug 2011, 15:04 (Ref:2935837) | #6 | ||
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4 Aug 2011, 15:30 (Ref:2935845) | #7 | ||
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It would also probably obliterate everything if it was ever allowed to run with current GT1 cars. |
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4 Aug 2011, 15:48 (Ref:2935852) | #8 | ||
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I agree with the above comments rerotos, but just want to point out that a stock car (of any level) is in no way production based. They don't have a single production part. I wouldn't even call it a silhouette.
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4 Aug 2011, 21:01 (Ref:2935955) | #9 | ||
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MP4-12C, F1, 458, MC12 and Saleen S7R : Give them the same power level, the same race preparation and equal tires and I think you have a very tight race. Today's GT cars are either running with ridiculously small restrictors (GTE) and/or without the weight reductions that would make them comparable to other real GT racers (GT3/GT1).
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5 Aug 2011, 23:59 (Ref:2936334) | #10 | ||
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I like that
That is one hell of a good scientific answer. I completely overlooked that there are cars built for racing from the scratch "protos" and production cars race prepped "Touring, saloons and GT's"
A new way of looking at cars in motorsports. Seriously, I'm impressed. Thanks |
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6 Aug 2011, 06:11 (Ref:2936363) | #11 | ||
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The MC12 is at heart a Ferrari FXX which is a heck of a lot more capable than a ferrari 458. i dont think The 458 and the MP4-12c belong in that list. |
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7 Aug 2011, 02:35 (Ref:2936777) | #12 | |||
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Of course an old prototype in GT clothing with modern development would murder a road GT, but I'm pretty sure the racing 458s and everything that races with them nowadays are faster than the 95-96 McLaren F1 GTRs. |
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7 Aug 2011, 12:24 (Ref:2936858) | #13 | ||
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44 days... |
7 Aug 2011, 13:11 (Ref:2936866) | #14 | ||
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7 Aug 2011, 14:14 (Ref:2936873) | #15 | |||
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Quote:
Nogaro 1996: 1:29.098 - McLaren F1 GTR Nogaro 2011 (FFSA GT3): 1:28.410 - Ferrari 458 GT3 - Jarama 1996: 1:33.570 - McLaren F1 GTR Jarama 2011: 1:34.158 - BMW Z4 GT3 - Zhuhai 1996: 1:32.680 - Porsche 911 GT1 Zhuhai 2010: 1:35.529 - Ferrari 430 GTC - Sebring 1997: 1:59.290 - McLaren F1 GTR Sebring 2011: 2:01.526 - BMW M3 E92 GT - Laguna Seca 1997: 1:19.713 - Porsche 911 GT1 Laguna Seca 2010: 1:23.457 - Ferrari 430 GTC Yes the old GT1s got faster than modern GTs during the 1996 season (a little after the mid-1990s). But modern GT cars based on real mass-produced road cars are getting very close with a lot less power and more weight. To me that makes them better cars... until you start thinking about how much time the old GT-Prototypes would gain on 2011 rubber if they were run by a team benefiting from 2011 knowledge about set-up and aero. In my mind, I can clearly see a 458 GTE staying with an F1 GTR if they were to meet on a track. |
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7 Aug 2011, 14:53 (Ref:2936883) | #16 | |
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fastest silverstone pole FIA GT 1998 1.39.703
fastest silverstone pole FIA GT 2009 1.42.2xx *same layout fastest spa pole FIA GT 1997 2.08.984 fastest spa pole FIA GT 2007 2.14.5x *same layout bus chicane a direct and correct comparison can be done with these example, both were GT1 class, same track layout and same weather condition with ever best laps in that track during the years. The difference is abyssal, an actul 458 GT3/GTC can only see the mclaren f1 gtr/mercedes CLK GTR/porsche 911 GT1 vanish to the horizon |
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7 Aug 2011, 15:09 (Ref:2936891) | #17 | |
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Spa chicane has changed a lot between 1997-2007.
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7 Aug 2011, 15:13 (Ref:2936893) | #18 | |
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10 Aug 2011, 21:38 (Ref:2938289) | #19 | |||
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Quote:
You cannot compare a car from ten years ago to a car today. Unless you have a time machine and can pull a car from ten years ago straight off of a paddock, anyone prepping it today would encompass changes made in engine and tire improvements, or simple chassis tweaking making the ten year old car faster than it was ten years ago. If a track is repaved or even part of it, a car unchanged will be quicker after the repaving than it was before. |
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