Standardised champiopnships

[Westysprinter]

Chatting to dad over the weekend, hes a golfer, and he professed to being confused as to why there are so many chamionships with versions of regulations which for all intense and purposes could be the same cars. He said it didnt matter where he played golf or who he played against the scoring and systems were the same.
It got me thinking
Imagine and I do mean imagine! If all for example 2.0 litre saloons ran the the same regulations in the country, obviously the single make champs and formula champs remain as is, but this is more club national level
Such car mentioned previous could be called lets say a class K car
The blue book could be written so that class K had set safety regs etc so no need to try and interpret from the plethora of options
Joe public watching a race oop north or darn sarth would be looking at the same cars
Anyone running a championship would say open to class A B C cars etc. The MSA would take a greater role in the technical aspects, Scruitineers would be able to scruitineer to set of national Standards. club comittees would only have to think about organising races.
A racer could take thier car anywhere in the country running their class of car and not need to be concerned about an extrra sproggle valve or widget.

Can of worms opened
Discuss

[ss_collins]

Yes basically a great idea - I've written similar on here in the past I think

[Al Weyman]

Isnt that how it was back in the day with the RACMSA (now MSA) dictating the different disciplines?

[MGDavid]

excellent idea and not too hard to structure, define and implement.
Just one snag - it would need MSA to be concerned about the amateur clubman rather than the professional motor sports businessmen... while one of the latter runs it I really cannot see it happening..

[Peter Dixon]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

excellent idea and not too hard to structure, define and implement.
Just one snag - it would need MSA to be concerned about the amateur clubman rather than the professional motor sports businessmen... while one of the latter runs it I really cannot see it happening..

Good idea, cant think of any draw backs really, obviously a lot of people would have to modify there cars somewhat to suit, but once done, would make things a lot easier!

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Peter Dixon

obviously a lot of people would have to modify there cars somewhat to suit, but once done, would make things a lot easier!

And that's a pretty big drawback!

At OP - With a straight class system you can rule out a win or place for anyone who doesn't have the right car, modified to the max, for that class. And not everyone will either want, or can afford, to run a car to the maximum spec - people find their level, and this system would do away with that. And what about historics / classics? Where do they fit in?

Maybe a better question would be "what can be done about the plethora of single-make / marque series that spring up every year?"

I think something definitely needs to be done, but common regs isn't the big issue.

[Chris Y]

I agree with Tim. I think you'd have to pretty much open the regs up for every type of car to comply. Open regs = chequebook racing.

In order to compete, you'd pretty much need the latest model car with the most advanced engine. If you ran a classic, you'd be at the back, getting lapped. People would stop racing in their droves, because they couldn't afford to keep up with others, or became disheartened/annoyed about being lapped every couple of minutes.

There would be less classes, for sure, but there'd be less racers too.

[Westysprinter]

At OP - With a straight class system you can rule out a win or place for anyone who doesn't have the right car, modified to the max, for that class. And not everyone will either want, or can afford, to run a car to the maximum spec - people find their level,

But thats what we have now regardless of the number of local classes. A standardised system wouldnt make this any different for the driver. If there was only 1 class, someone would chuck money at it and someone would show up for the fun of racing.

[BertMk2]

Standard classes is generally what you have in club level rallying, the events we compete in usually have classes split along the following lines:

A - up to 1400
B - 1401-1600
C - 1601-2000
D - 2000+
E - 4WD

Whilst the class structure is simple it does give rise to a wild disparity between the fastest and slowest in class (as Chris suggests). Our Escort is a Class C car (2 litre redtop), it's got a reasonable amount of poke but Class C also often includes ex-works F2, maxi and kit cars as well as Darians and the like - these often have somewhere in the region of 300bhp (not to mention bigger wheels and brakes, better suspension etc etc). Our homebuilt Escort is not going to touch an ex-works 306 for pace no matter how hard we push. Reliability and consistency are our best hope there (so don't mention gearboxes ). If you want to win a championship in that class structure you need to spend big money, if you just want to go and 'run what ya brung' it's fine.

Standardised regs could be made to work in circuit racing but I think you'd need a number of different standards (production, modified, supermodified, historic - that kind of thing). Alternatively some common sense could be applied by championship organisers and they could write the regs to suit what's out there rather than creating new series all the time

[greenamex2]

The view of golf isn't entirely accurate.

Golf also has numerous sub divisions in terms clubs/societies etc. And most of these are invitation only requiring you to be male/female/certain nationality/certain hobby/certain religion etc etc.

There are also different sets of rules for scoring when playing in groups.

If you have lots of money you can play at the big posh venues.

If you have lots of money/time you can have lots of tuition/practice to get consistent.

If you have lots of money you can afford new kit helping you stay consistent.

Of course nobody playing golf is actually just happy maintaining a set handicap and always ends up spending time/money trying to reduce it.

In most respects golf is more akin to drag racing than circuit racing.

[Peter Dixon]

I think it doesn't matter what regs you have in place, the cheque-book warriors will always build the best car, you cant avoid that. I cant see how standardising the classes would make any difference.

I find the more rules you have, the more the larger wallets will shine through. They can exploit every little advantage that layman's like you and me just cant warrant the cost. Look at the stock hatch classes, the money in those leading 106/saxo's is scary!

I just think its a bit frustrating when I can maybe enter the Northern Sports, North West and Tin-Tops say, but cant enter the Pre-93's or Project 8 even though the class structure is relatively the same, just the 'details' slightly different.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Westysprinter

But thats what we have now regardless of the number of local classes. A standardised system wouldnt make this any different for the driver. If there was only 1 class, someone would chuck money at it and someone would show up for the fun of racing.

Not true. For example, the last car I raced was eligible for several championships. In some it would have been competitive in class for not a lot more money than I'd put into it already (for example Tintops, Toyo Tyres), in others the regs were much freer and I could have thrown a shedload of cash at it and never got anywhere near the front of class. Same class splits, but different rules and so appeal to different budgets.

You might say that some only show up for the fun of racing, but if the speed differential is so great from the cheque-book racer to the mildly-modded budget racer, then it's not so much fun for the latter, and they stop showing up. I wouldn't want to pay £200+ for the privilege of watching my rear-view mirror for 20 minutes!

Bert's idea is good - levels within class splits, to allow people to spend what they see fit. I don't mind the idea of rallying, sprinting or hill-climbing having set classes - it seems to make sense there as the competition is as much against yourself as against others.

[Westysprinter]

Originally Posted by Peter Dixon

I think it doesn't matter what regs you have in place, the cheque-book warriors will always build the best car, you cant avoid that. I cant see how standardising the classes would make any difference.

I find the more rules you have, the more the larger wallets will shine through. They can exploit every little advantage that layman's like you and me just cant warrant the cost. Look at the stock hatch classes, the money in those leading 106/saxo's is scary!

I just think its a bit frustrating when I can maybe enter the Northern Sports, North West and Tin-Tops say, but cant enter the Pre-93's or Project 8 even though the class structure is relatively the same, just the 'details' slightly different.

You see Peter There's a difference already, North West is Slicks, Northern sports is 1B tyres