Becoming an ARDS instructor?

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by svenlock68

So does that mean the initial "easy" one ,that people say is relatively easy to pass in a day ,is ALL you need before getting ten signatures or is the 'advanced instructor ' one at the end of a years racing seasons not needed? their ad for the ARDS instructor one looks like the right one....what you need to pass.I'm getting confused now ??

you're mixing things up, there is no 'advanced instructor' course.
You do ARDS course, you get a B race licence.
You finish 10 races and get 10 signatures,
you do the ARDS Instructors course
you get ARDS Grade C (probationary) Instructors licence

which allows you 'able to instruct on track for novice experiences with day to day supervision'

[terence]

I thought you already had a race license,sorry if thats wrong. ARDS Instructor assessment is,as David has pointed out,£250,your Instructors license,through ARDS themselves will cost a further £185,this is the license the MSA issue.

[svenlock68]

Ok thanks,fair enough but if its £185 through ARDS wheres that done? at MSV ? they seem to want their own level of money for courses. So its £250 plus 185 but the BIG cost is the second car racing seasons for the sig's etc Ill think about it. Cheers

[terence]

Originally Posted by svenlock68

Ok thanks,fair enough but if its £185 through ARDS wheres that done? at MSV ? they seem to want their own level of money for courses. So its £250 plus 185 but the BIG cost is the second car racing seasons for the sig's etc Ill think about it. Cheers

First:£250 Assessment
Second: Assessment school rubber stamps you for license application to ARDS.
Third: ARDS issues you a license which comes via MSA for £185,you would then be classed as an instructor.
Four: Go and do plenty of races so that you can pass on your experience and knowledge, cost? Frightening!!!!!!!!!!

[svenlock68]

Thanks if you look at it as an individual its another car,roll cage,the right engine,good brakes,race suit/helmet,petrol kill switches fitted,insurance for racing,petrol plus correct noise/emissions correction ! and so on.....£120 each time you race JESUS ! no wonder the "race-teams" at MSV are all "company director/company owner/mechanics " jobs as drivers etc It takes alot doesnt it ! you need to win the lottery HA

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by svenlock68

Thanks if you look at it as an individual its another car,roll cage,the right engine,good brakes,race suit/helmet,petrol kill switches fitted,insurance for racing,petrol plus correct noise/emissions correction ! and so on.....£120 each time you race JESUS ! no wonder the "race-teams" at MSV are all "company director/company owner/mechanics " jobs as drivers etc It takes alot doesnt it ! you need to win the lottery HA

I'm told it's not that much more expensive than, say, golf at a good members' club - but a helluva lot more fun :-)

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Originally Posted by svenlock68

£120 each time you race JESUS !

You're never going to be able to race anything, not even karts for as little as £120.

I estimate it cost me about £35,000 of racing to be eligible to become an ARDS instructor. Not a sensible career route unless somebody else is paying for the racing or if you're going to be doing all that racing anyway.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

You're never going to be able to race anything, not even karts for as little as £120.

I estimate it cost me about £35,000 of racing to be eligible to become an ARDS instructor. Not a sensible career route unless somebody else is paying for the racing or if you're going to be doing all that racing anyway.

That was a cheap way in Alex! Fortunately it doesn't cost me too much these day's.
BUT,I do feel sorry for people who really want to start racing now,everything cost's a lot more than when I started,plus in this day and age,money must be a lot harder to come by,not a good time to start unless mummy and daddy have the disposable.

[svenlock68]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

You're never going to be able to race anything, not even karts for as little as £120.

I estimate it cost me about £35,000 of racing to be eligible to become an ARDS instructor. Not a sensible career route unless somebody else is paying for the racing or if you're going to be doing all that racing anyway.

The point i made was if you actually HAD the car,its £120 for say a days novice racing at MSV oulton park,thats their fee,youre not going to get to incredible race standard in ten races are you !? but you need ten,even novice,races to get your signatures plus marshal ling.....so thats over a grand to have the right to drive your own car round a track in the first place.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I know of some 'instructors' who had only competed in three/four races before going for their License and getting it rubber stamped by Silverstone!!!
Sorry,but personally I do not think that to be enough experience!

As somebody who has to figuratively (and sometimes literally) to 'pick up the pieces' of inexperienced race drivers, I would totally agree with Terry that setting yourself up as an 'instructor' with that level of experience (i.e. three or four races) is frankly a farce. There's far more to racing than just knowing the best line through a corner and if I were paying for instruction or even my ARDS test, I would like to think that the instructor had reasonable experience of actual competition.
I'm sorry if that comes over as a negative attitude as I wouldn't want to discourage anybody who has the necessary talent and motivation to make a good instructor. Just telling the truth as I see it.

[terence]

Spot on as ever John,would anyone ever take Sky Diving Lesson's from an inexperienced instructor?

[terence]

Originally Posted by svenlock68

The point i made was if you actually HAD the car,its £120 for say a days novice racing at MSV oulton park,thats their fee,youre not going to get to incredible race standard in ten races are you !? but you need ten,even novice,races to get your signatures plus marshal ling.....so thats over a grand to have the right to drive your own car round a track in the first place.

Sven,would you take much notice or believe something you were told/instructed to do by someone who has only ten novice races behind them? It really comes down to experience in a much wider world of racing. Unfortunately,it is a very expensive route to take,it would have cost me a lot less to have carried on with my pilots license,I really wanted to do Aerobatics,had lesson's from one of the countries leaders in the field [a good friend] But I went racing instead,and guess what,never regretted a moment of being on circuit ,whether racing or instructing,there is so much ultimate reward for giving back just a little. IF you want it,you'll find a way.

[svenlock68]

Some tracks I've spoken to don't have much knowledge on even getting the ten signatures etc and they employ them !!? they send/divert you to MSA etc Alot of ARDS people I've spoken to have said it isn't the amazing driving skills they employ when sitting next to a track-day driver,its interpersonal skills and safety.....so there you go.

[terence]

Point taken but a good teacher hasn't just left University

[midgetman]

I think that's what they're saying Terry. They don't need someone blindingly fast, but someone able to drive faster than the customers, ultra-safely, and above all else able to communicate it. And you don't get good interpersonal skills and safety just by doing ten races do you?

svenlock68, the best tips I can give are to get involved in your local motor clubs, start organising events, competing in speed events, autotest, anything, it's all great experience and teaches you all about motor sport in its widest forms and you'll just ooze confidence when talking to your customers. Build your racing car while you're doing it, serve your apprenticeship like we all do and with age and maturity will come your ARDS licence!

If you want to race just to get your ARDS instructor licence, then I reckon you're not the right person anyway. If you're dedicated/enthusiastic enough you'd be racing already anyway, and this question wouldn't even raise its head.

I'm really pleased you *can't* become an instructor just on the back of some trackdays. An ARDS instructor licence isn't a right, it's a reward for serving time in the sport. Even the young instructors have done more races and laps than most of us can shake a stick at!

[johngee]

I would endorse every word of Midgetman's post. He's said what I meant far better than I did!

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by midgetman

....... with age and maturity will come your ARDS licence! ......

I note OP's profile says he's 43 already!

[Gerry Taylor]

Originally Posted by johngee

As somebody who has to figuratively (and sometimes literally) to 'pick up the pieces' of inexperienced race drivers, I would totally agree with Terry that setting yourself up as an 'instructor' with that level of experience (i.e. three or four races) is frankly a farce. There's far more to racing than just knowing the best line through a corner and if I were paying for instruction or even my ARDS test, I would like to think that the instructor had reasonable experience of actual competition.
I'm sorry if that comes over as a negative attitude as I wouldn't want to discourage anybody who has the necessary talent and motivation to make a good instructor. Just telling the truth as I see it.

Having watched these posts from the sidelines, this sounds like real common sense to me John, well done.
Personally?..............yeah, it really is a means to make money. ARDS tests should not be a neccessity. There is no difference between the drivers of my day and today. We did not have to pass an ARDS test, we learned our craft over the normal ten initial races, and progressed up to our International licence, learning every step of the way. But, Hey, this is the way you do it today, so that's it.
Good Luck to all who want to start racing.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

I note OP's profile says he's 43 already!

And how old were you when you started racing?

BUT, your competition CV was already extensive from all sides of motor sport, and you didn't just jump in and spend a shed load of money to buy your way into racing. You shared a car, shared expenses, got your signatures and have served your time.

The OP could always go and see if their local ARDS school needs an entry level instructor, strapping in, checking helmets etc. Great way of meeting other racers, there could even be a shared drive going. Also good way to learn about the eccentricities of Clerks of the Course ( ) and scrutineers, drawing on other people's experience.

Clubs, schools, friends, there's a great network out there to help you get racing at reasonable cost. Get out and enjoy it, and the instructing will fall into place.

[midgetman]

Gerry, I don't know if I'm at cross purposes on your post, but ARDS instructors do more than just the ARDS test. At some circuits they are the only people allowed to teach on track days or dealer days etc. For the car suppliers, it's as good a way of any of checking the instructor isn't going to throw their precious car and customers into the barrier.

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, I inferred that you were thinking they only taught the MSA licence test. Apologies if I got that wrong, no offence intended.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by midgetman

And how old were you when you started racing? ......

Look, you agreed not to keep bringing that up in public
54 since you asked
and what do I think of it?

[johngee]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Also good way to learn about the eccentricities of Clerks of the Course ( ) and scrutineers, drawing on other people's experience.

Oi - I'm not eccentric Well, alright then but not all the time.

[strider]

I won a few races and championships in the past and became an ARDS instructor Class A. Would that enable me to short-cut the procedure if I wanted to instruct again?

[terence]

B est check with ARDS but I think it unlikely you'll short cut anything though.
Probably depend on how long since you held the license.

[strider]

Thanks. I think what I'll do is talk to the school with which I was an instructor in the past.