I think that its safe to say Great Britian wont be winning the A1 GP title!

[Frank_White]

I'll weigh back in on this topic after Sunday's races.

But If robbie Kerr doesnt achieve a podium at the least (it really should be a win) then he should be out.

For christ sakes, France has been rotating drivers even when they have been winning. In principle (regardless of what robbie does on Sunday) i think team GB has it wrong.

[Mr Jinxx]

I disagree to an extent, Frank. I would measure GBR - any team/driver, in fact - by their speed, not by the results. Fortune can go in our favour (like the pitstops did for us at Brands and Portugal) and against us, like the techie problems, or racing incidents. I think you need to look beyond a piece of paper with a result on it, to see the underlying picture.

My personal opinion is that TeamGBR should stick with Robbie until he's on the pace. If we don't ever get there, THEN is the time to look to change drivers. If that driver can't get up to speed either (and if that's to be Alex, then you'd have to give him some time too) then you'd have to look at the team. It took young Rosberg a while to start winning (dominating) in GP2, didn't it. Give Robbie and the team time before judging, is my only comment, don't follow the route of "quick to condemn based on results alone". Time in the seat.

[Frank_White]

Mr. Lloyd, understand what you are saying. However, forgive me if i disagree with you.

At the end of the day, the team with the best result will win the championship. it does not avail GB to have a host of excuses for not winning. And NO IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO LEAVE ROBBIE KER THERE ALL SEASON TO ALLOW HIM TO GET USED TO THE CAR. everyone is in his same position. in fact many have it worse. Many teams rotate their drivers!

the driver has a huge role. Not only his driving skill, but also technical setup skill as well as motivating the team. It is for the aforesaid reasons that many reckon TGF the best driver ever. I'm not suggesting that there is an easy answer for GB to win. but the fact remains that considering that Robbie Kerr has not won yet, how can it be wrong to give another driver a go? So what if the team made the occassional mistake? All teams did, France and Brazil. so what if the tyre presures were wrong in one qualifying session.... what about the other three?

If GB wants to show well/ok in the championship then they are doing fine. If they want wins, they should rotate the drivers and get more feedback/data to see what is the true issues with the car. a perfect GB canidate is Jamie Green, senior very fast and proven. I'm sure he'd have a go if invited. He'd probably win too.

Mr. Jinnx, i'd say this to alex, "...nothing ventured nothing gained..." If he races and wins, glory will be his. but if he doesnt race......

[Mr Jinxx]

Frank. Alex tends to be a glory or bust racer, my insurance company has reminded me of this. Another reason why I have no money left. He'd agree with your every word, probably, but it isn't his choice whether to race or not. He was chosen as one of two drivers, but hasn't been given the opportunitiy to get in the car. That's not his choice - it's whoever is pulling the strings' choice.

I'm biased, Frank. I think that if Alex had been given all the driving from the off, he would have been closer to the pace by now than Robbie is, but I have absolutely nothing with which to back that up, other than direct comprisons with other drivers, ex-team mates, gut feeling, etc.

I've never raced, never wanted to, been dragged into this "sport" by Alex against my will, and reluctantly been persuaded that he has that certain edge, probably a blend of sensitivity, aggression, fearlessness, ability to learn quickly, whatever. Enough to bloody bankrupt me in supporting him! And I wouldn't do that lightly, trust me. But that doesn't mean anything. It's just my opinion. If you know me, you'll know to take it seriously. You'll also know that, no matter how hard I try, my judgement is likely to be clouded because of my relationship, so you (and I) have to take these things into account. I'm not in any way putting Alex down, nor undermining his confidence, as you originally suggested. Just saying that I don't care if he's the next Senna or what, he'll need time to get sorted in this car, and because we're not where we should be, he won't get it if he jumped in straight away. Senna never went 2 years without racing, I don't think, especially at such a young age.

Alex is 20. Robbie 26. No, I wasn't suggesting stick with Robbie the whole season, but you do have to give Robbie a proper chance. Where I tend to differ from AlMillion is that, because I am pro Alex, that doesn't mean I am against Robbie. I like Robbie as a person, I rate him as a driver. He has weaknesses, sure, but even I do. Ditto Alex. His weaknesses are different to Robbie's, but this is a tough business, and I'm not going to sit down and make excuses for Alex, any more than I would about anyone else. Reasons are one thing, excuses are something else.

Yes, the driver has a huge role, exactly as you say. Not just to drive the given machine as fast as it will go, but to go back to the garage and tell the engineer how to make it go quicker. There are many ways the engineer can give a driver what he wants. I'm bored, so may I bore you for a second? A driver can come in and say the car isn't turning in as well as he wants. No "bite" on the turn-in. Assuming he's driving the car properly (every FFord driver will say the same thing at first - that's because he's not driving the car the way it should be driven) then the engineer can go several routes. He can increase the rake of the car (lift the back) to increase the weight on the front, he can soften the compression damping, he can stick on a new softer set of springs, increase the front wing, etc, etc. Each choice takes you down a different route, and every change will affect other things. The driver has to understand, feel and describe precisely what is happening to the car, and then an experienced engineer will know whether to pursue that route, or whether to dismiss it, because it was the wrong road.

But that's the reason why you need to give a driver and an engineer time to work with each other and understand each other ... so the engineer can understand precisely what the driver is saying to him. Senna, some guy you mentioned earlier, seems to have been exceptional in being able to describe and recall exactly what the car was doing at any one time, and being able to relay that to his engineer, such that the engineer could get an immediate grip on what the changes should be ... i.e. which route they should go down.

All I'm saying is that I have to agree logically (although not with my heart) to agree that the team, Arden, should stick with Robbie and give him time, not dismiss him too early. I'm not suggesting all season, but give him enough time, that's all.

Yeah yeah yeah, I'd love to have seen Alex in the car, but Alex is only 20, he's got time on his side, he's rusty, and if I was in the franchisee's position, I'd be sticking with Robbie too, until I'm fairly sure that he isn't going to get any closer to the ultimate pace. Then I'd try something/someone else. USA are trying Bryan Herta. Has that worked? Instant fixes are there none. Any driver needs time to sort the car out, and gel with his engineer, be it Bryan Herta or Robbie or whoever. If you're lucky enough to get the car pretty much sorted in the first place, then the driver only need make small tweaks to suit himself. If you're not, the driver and engineer have a job to do, and that's a driver/engineer, not just the driver. The driver leads, sure, but he needs a relataionship, an understanding, with his engineer, if he's got a lot of work to do, and that takes time in the seat. TeamGBR didn't just hit on the right balance, so you have to allow time to hit on the base setup either by chance, or by logical progression.

Robbie reckons he's now happy with the car's balance. He hasn't been before, irrespective of why not. So let the lap times show how well we're progressing. I think GBR will be closer in race pace than we have been in qualifying, and that will tell its own tale to the engineers.

Your man Senna said, concentrate on perfecting every detail. Concentrate on perfect fitness, perfect overtaking moves, perfect defense, perfect gearchanges, perfect lines, perfect use of new tyres. Feel the car. Concentrate on the details. Race wins and championships will follow as a matter of course if you get them right. And, young as he was, Senna was an absolute Sage. One of the very few people in this world I'd have loved to have known. But he's dead right there.

All of these things take time. If there's one thing I've learned in my many years, it's that you don't tell your better half that she looks "nice".

If there's another thing I've learned, it's that you can't rush some things, like youths tend to do. You stick with it, until you're certain. France have been lucky, in some ways. They've got the car pretty sweet pretty quick. So they can alternate between two drivers who can peddle such cars, without much difference between the drivers. You can afford to do that when the car is right. If it's not sweet, you have to start from first principles again with another driver. Bryan Herta, a great driver, must surely bear out the truth in my hypothesis.

Until GBR get to the stage where the car is sweet, what's the point in swapping drivers?

[Mr Jinxx]

And that race must surely prove the logic! Robbie did a very good job there, and that was a lovely move on Piquet to take 3rd. Bold move too, because it was a risk, because if Piquet hadn't had his eyes open, Robbie would have had to face a lot of stick, and he (Robbie) would have known that, so hats off to him. All the Sky commentators seemed to go on about was Robbie's poor restarts, which I think missed the point - they were a bit harsh on him. It was a good drive, and he was under pressure to deliver one, and he did the job. I'd like to see the lap times, but it looks like Team GBR are pretty much on the pace now.

[nev]

Robbie did say that his tyres were a bit off and so he couldnt keep up with France. with this in mind would you not just let him go away on the restarts and worry about whats behind you !!! If you know you cant catch the guy in front then you back up the person behind you into the person behind them so you can get away whilst they are fighting.

[foreversideways]

Despite all that has been said below i think a rotation policy as employed by other teams would and still is the way to go. I am ceratinly not knocking Robbie, I just feel that the nature of A1GP lends itself to swopping the drivers and i repeat that two opinions on the car will always be better than one.

[girl r4cer]

Quote from Robbie on the GBR press release;

''on the restarts under the safety car France could dictate the pace and combined with an engine stutter gave France the opportunity to pull out a lead and Switzerland the chance to challenge''

Well at least that would help to explain the slower restarts! Still a good result from team GBR though.

[Frank_White]

always an excuse aint it.... never a win.

[nev]

Originally Posted by Frank_White

always an excuse aint it.... never a win.

some peoplw are never satisfied

Great drive
Great overtaking
Great result

If its true that hes having problems with the car why cant people just accept it - who are you to judge !!!
He wouldnt say that the car was stuttering if it wasnt because it would be plastered all over the telemetry and it would make him look like a fool
look at the start, he was falling back even then and it was only the opertunistic move on the inside on turn 2 that gave him any chance of being at the sharp end.

In my opinion he had enough sticky back plastic to create a solid weekend

[foreversideways]

Congrats to team GB. Good work all round and it's what we have all been waiting for. Well done Robbie. Great move on Piquet and a great weekends driving. Lets hope we can get on terms with France at the next race.

[Kicking-back]

GBR are on pace now "best of the rest" behind France, I believe, and I imagine France have less room left to improve.

[Rockfan]

After my comments above in previous parts of this thread, I congratulate Robbie on his second place in feature race, but I still maintain that it needs a change foor just achance to see if another GBR driver can do better, it has been proved with France, they have swopped and won by both drivers.

It is not Robbie who wins, second it is GBR. Ok I am not satified, I want a win for GBR, what is wrong with that, if Robbie delivers fine, it is still GBR win, so why not just try out Alex Lloyd for Maylasia, let see if he can do better or worse. We will never know if he is not tried out.

Still good A1GP race, good 2nd place Robbie, and eventful weekend, thanks Shiekh and A1gp, and Australia.

[strider]

The point is that both Team France drivers came into A1GP on the back of full seasons in GP2. Same for Piquet and Jani, and most of the other front-runners have beeen racing regularly in F3 or something similar during the year. Whatever Frank_White may think, you can't just jump into a car and be immediately competitive.

At this point it's not just Team GBR that is unlikely to win, it's everyone else apart from France! There is not much point in making a change for its own sake now. It's probably best to take stock of the situation after the Christmas break.

[ensign14]

And Kerr has massacred Jos the Boss and the IRLybirds, has he not? He's on a par with Piquet despite track-rust.

[Frank_White]

Okay, if Alex Lloyd is not up to it to justify a swap... (this is apparently what lots of people are saying) can someone explain to me why he is the second driver for team GB?

Clearly i'm completely lost here as to why France wins all the time with alternate drivers yet the second driver for team GB is apparently not qualified to drive.

[Frank_White]

Actually, i give upon this topic. Let robbie Kerr drive until the end. It pains me though that team GB is clearly not going to win the title when GB has the best racing engineers and the best driving talent in the whole world.

At this point the obvious thing to change in my opinion is the driver (or at least to rotate them). I get the underlying feeling that the GB team lacks decisive leadship and vision and is just ambling along, when they should be winning. Its very frustrating to me.

[speedy2]

this is a simple case, look at France two top quality drivers, who get on lika a house on fire, are 'real' friends, who want to make it and talent..have you ever seen what they did at Macau....

GBR, two drivers, one with talent the other who has yet to prove himself ? and yes Kerr has won the British Formula 3 Championship and Alex Lloyd...well that's a mystery....'being choosen by Motorworld'....I think not, Mclaren award...deserved?

And friends, I think not.......Kerr hates Lloyd with a vengence...

You see the problem with Team GBR, is just that, it's not a TEAM......

I think Kerr and Arden are doing a good job, given the fact that John Surtees is involved, everyone says he is a nightmare, care to comment on that one Mr Lloyd ?

[foreversideways]

Somehow i dont think Mr Lloyd will be commenting on your rather bitter remarks speedy 2. Which Axe is it that you have to grind?.

[Mr Jinxx]

Yes.

However, I do not agree on some points.

TeamGBR is definitely a team - certainly more so than France, inasmuch as it has been one team, one engineer and one driver only. I fail to see how you can get to be more of a team than that.

Two top quality drivers who are "real friends" is the key to success is it? Silly old Ron Dennis, back in the Prost/Senna days.

Robbie hates Alex with a vengeance, does he? Well, who can blame him, eh?

John Surtees is not only a legend, not only steeped in motorsport and success to an extent the rest of us can only dream of, knowledgeable and straight, but he is a true gentleman as well. It is a pure and simple lie to say what you said. If you want to see nightmares, come to some of mine.

[Mr Jinxx]

Had to reply to that one, foreversideways, sorry It was bordering on slander, and shouldn't be allowed to stand.

[nev]

[QUOTE=Mr Jinxx]Yes.

Robbie hates Alex with a vengeance, does he? Well, who can blame him, eh?
QUOTE]

Both drivers want to drive for Team GB, either would be dissapointed if the other got the drive, this is not hate. Was it not John Surties who said that they would use Robbie first due to his experience and then they would prime Alex for next year.
Ive never met Alex and im sure that people close to him will have a different opinion to me but i did find that leading upto the start of the A1gp season he had lots of press, more so than Robbie and he did give the impresion that he was GB's number 1 driver and would be in the seat. Maybe this is what he was told or believed but if you were in robbie's shoes who may have been told differently you would br quite agreaved to hear that you wern't driving or the teams number 1 driver.
Both these guys are going to be competetive on and off the track, it would be nice that people supported both of them and let the team decide who gets the drive cos i do beleive that they know alot more about their driving ability than us.

[foreversideways]

[QUOTE=nev]

Originally Posted by Mr Jinxx

Yes.

Robbie hates Alex with a vengeance, does he? Well, who can blame him, eh?
QUOTE]

Both drivers want to drive for Team GB, either would be dissapointed if the other got the drive, this is not hate. Was it not John Surties who said that they would use Robbie first due to his experience and then they would prime Alex for next year.
Ive never met Alex and im sure that people close to him will have a different opinion to me but i did find that leading upto the start of the A1gp season he had lots of press, more so than Robbie and he did give the impresion that he was GB's number 1 driver and would be in the seat. Maybe this is what he was told or believed but if you were in robbie's shoes who may have been told differently you would br quite agreaved to hear that you wern't driving or the teams number 1 driver.
Both these guys are going to be competetive on and off the track, it would be nice that people supported both of them and let the team decide who gets the drive cos i do beleive that they know alot more about their driving ability than us.

Certain drivers have always been more attractive to the media than others, also i guess Alex was available as he was not driving (i am sure he would have prefered tp be driving). He has done a good job promoting Team GB on radio and TV and i thought he was very fair in the Sky studio. I for one have never heard him say he was the teams number one driver.

[Kebab]

Blimey, its all a matter of opinion ... am amazed that so many adults are arguing like children in this thread.

Nev is right, we should all be supporting TeamGB no matter what and have faith that they r making the right choices.

I hope that in reality the drivers know they can count on each other - shame if they can't.

There seems to be a lot of friends/family of both drivers here (esp. on Alex's side) and I think the lot of you are biased! They're both great drivers and we should all feel chuffed that we have a choice of such a high standard (unlike other teams/nations). We're not even 1/2 way through the season yet. I hope neither driver see/hear any of this rubbish as it would not help either of them.

[Hazza]

Originally Posted by nev

...it would be nice that people supported both of them and let the team decide who gets the drive cos i do beleive that they know alot more about their driving ability than us.