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15 Mar 2008, 06:55 (Ref:2152230) | #51 | |||
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Different cars with different power, handling and braking characteristics make for exciting racing not processional as are some of the one-make series. |
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15 Mar 2008, 06:56 (Ref:2152232) | #52 | |||
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In short summary-- yes Intermarque do allow turbo cars of all manufacturers .History shows that there has been a remarkable eveness of the contest when that happens-- despite the paper appearances, Even your friend the "porker" recently had a victory over 993 turbo-- which incidentally that particular turbo was built to the spec it is by mindless prejudice--- ie the old Porsche Cup rules that refused to allow the 993 twin turbo to run and saw the engines built with single turbos for years -- in the ill concieved notion that this would make the cars slower etc. If you bother to look at the history of the Porsche Cup after the GT3 appeared-- only once did turbo win-- and that was due to the GT3 drivers being slow that year( by way of comparison to other years). |
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15 Mar 2008, 07:54 (Ref:2152244) | #53 | ||
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It seems that there is so much ignorance existing about the "magic" of the Porsche turbos.
Most of the Porsche turbos that are racing or have been raced in Australia were built from road cars and unfortunately didn't have the benefit of the Porsche factory TAG or Formula 1 engine development programmes. In fact most of the twin turbos have stock factory internals with some external bolt-on upgrades, unlike many of the upgraded GT3/Cup engines, many of which have RSR components. |
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15 Mar 2008, 11:02 (Ref:2152323) | #54 | ||
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All you 'turbo fans' could in fact call yourselves turbo's............cause just like the real turbo, you too just blow wind..............
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those things refered to on here as ARC's belong in the demo derby at the speedway |
15 Mar 2008, 11:56 (Ref:2152373) | #55 | ||
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It's been interesting following this thread; there seem to be those who are anti-turbo, but yet are unable to come up with anything specific as to why the turbos aren't able to be regulated and equally they avoid the issue of how to regulate the non-turbo cars? If there were several classes ,as there are in many series, then the turbos and RS/RSR's could be in one class, say "open", the factory spec Cup Cars would be Cup Car Class etc etc.
There has to be a number of classes in any event ,as a std spec GT3 or NA 993's would not be competitive with the Cup Cars in a one class structure. Porsche Cup had A, B,& C classes and also occassionally had a 944 class, that worked for some 16+ years until Carrera Cup took the Porsche Cup CMA. |
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15 Mar 2008, 14:11 (Ref:2152493) | #56 | ||
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17 Mar 2008, 05:33 (Ref:2154370) | #57 | |
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I am curious: Turbos seem to be effectively regulated in a wide range of classes around the world and in Aust IPRA immediately springs to mind as a mixed class. So what are the issues that make them uncontrollable in a Porsche?
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17 Mar 2008, 06:29 (Ref:2154385) | #58 | |||
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It ought to be pointed out that historically some fantastic turbo race cars have dominated sportscar racing-- great cars that they were- their reputations were created in a period without much opposition- often overlooked that point. Another issue that needs stating-- Porsche engines are relatively archaic deign when compared to modern Japanese engines that are capable of running relatively high boost levels-- the Porsche designs cannot reliably( read that as not very long at all) sustain high boost levels .This is a major issue that the knockers of convenience (to their own ends) are both ignorant of and do not want to listen to. It is another case of forget the facts --opinions prevail!! |
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17 Mar 2008, 06:30 (Ref:2154387) | #59 | |||
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17 Mar 2008, 06:37 (Ref:2154390) | #60 | |||
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The exclusion has nothing to do with facts. It is Porsche with theirs hands up everybodies back.... pulling the strings. It also needs to be stated that the same people were prepared to shove the old Porsche Cup out the door when they wanted Carrera Cup and after causing all that pain now want to walk back in, albeit with themselves in the drivers seat and a few puppets to front it. |
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17 Mar 2008, 08:19 (Ref:2154438) | #61 | |||
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You must be either an embittered ex-competitor or a failed promotor hey?...whatever. As a fact (something you like to state as being your personal domain, the rest of us only have opinions) I have driven 911 turbos extensively and with some success in my own motorsport fishbowl and have no prejudice against them, far from it. But now I have a Cup Car and would like to race other guys with similar equipment in a cost effective competition...ooohh, it must be an evil plan to dominate the motorsport world. Get over it. I nearly let the absolute cr@p that you write about Porsche turbo engines being archaic go, but its not my style. Fact:the basic crankcase style is from the 930turbo in the 964,993,996 turbos as well as the 964,993rs and GT3 normally aspirated engine. Fact:Porsche design standard is for the production engine to be less than half the horsepower output that the short engine can cope with. With a standard 996 turbo putting out 431 horsepower, you do the math, and they don't break. ...spent many a track day watching 'hi-tech' Japanese turbo's with a gizzilion horsepower leaving early on a flatbed whilst I merrily circulated in a 996 turbo doing quicker lap times with the a/c on. Next time you want to run off me in this thread, get your facts straight Silver3. |
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17 Mar 2008, 08:35 (Ref:2154446) | #62 | |
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well, I am glad that has passed, but can someone address the topic: why cannot turbo's be controlled in a Porsche racing series. If any manufacturer has the turbo history, Porsche do.
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17 Mar 2008, 08:38 (Ref:2154452) | #63 | |||
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17 Mar 2008, 08:44 (Ref:2154460) | #64 | |||
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17 Mar 2008, 08:58 (Ref:2154467) | #65 | |
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Turbo controls currently in use around the world (I have no doubt there are more): intake restrictors, preset blow off valves, fuel restrictors, control fuel, boost logging, control engines, control turbos...what else?
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17 Mar 2008, 09:04 (Ref:2154474) | #66 | |||
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17 Mar 2008, 09:08 (Ref:2154478) | #67 | |||
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Everything can be controlled, including turbos...at a price. After reading the info pack on the GT3 Cup Challenge, cost limitation is one of the main mission statements. If you have to hire a tech director, bring scales, a dyno etc etc, it won't be a cheap series anymore. I would think that if you start blowing everyone off, you'll carry some weight, whether its because you've had a Fitzy upgrade...or because you're just to good! Turbo's are not part of the program, pure and simple, they'll have to race elsewhere. It's not some huge conspiracy against turbos...gee, I don't hear the 356 register whinging that they're not invited. |
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17 Mar 2008, 09:14 (Ref:2154483) | #68 | |||
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Generally speaking my view of many of your posts that they are naive and rather than sounding like Iam carping I desist from comment. I will email you with more! |
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17 Mar 2008, 20:55 (Ref:2155063) | #69 | ||
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Bemused Silver3, not excited. You're right, it is a public forum, but don't confuse your own parallel universe as being the only domain of fact.
You continue by making assumptions such as my experience with 996tt being 'undoubtedly stock set up'. Try 650hp, race suspension, 380mm front discs with 8 pot calipers...and never missed a beat. Don't bother emailing me...sorry, don't bother me. |
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17 Mar 2008, 21:58 (Ref:2155122) | #70 | ||
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[quote=Sheep Stations]
Try 650hp, race suspension, 380mm front discs with 8 pot calipers...and never missed a beat. If you were running a 650hp turbo with big brakes etc; how did the lap times compare to a 996 Cup Car which has 400+hp, smaller brakes etc? |
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17 Mar 2008, 22:15 (Ref:2155130) | #71 | |||
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Most circuits do have a weighbridge, so monitoring the weight is a no-brainer. One point that is being missed is that this series is using the Porsche Drivers Challenge CMA, and PDC always included the turbos. If you refer to the PDC regs , you will see the restrictions, controls etc that were placed on the 993 T/turbos. These turbos and the GT3's of the day were ultra competitive with each other. The turbos typically have more torque down low and the 996's are faster top end, so it makes for interesting racing rather than the processions that happen when all cars have the same characteristics. PDC was/is a race series owned and run by the competitors who owned their own Porsche race cars and catered for most models and configerations. |
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17 Mar 2008, 22:23 (Ref:2155137) | #72 | |||
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So limit the boost and log it so there is no fudging. |
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17 Mar 2008, 23:26 (Ref:2155201) | #73 | ||
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Keep talking to the organisers then Top Dog... If the parity can be controlled, as a competitor I couldn't care less who I race and how wide in the bum it is...but with 30 odd Cup Cars and more log booked GT3's out there, I can understand why there is focus on these cars rather than an attitude of exclusion.
Hard to quantify the lap times between the 650hp 996 turbo and the Cup Car. The turbo weighed 1650kg's and was on club tyres and was not far off my Cup Car times on slicks. A week on Jenny Craig and some stickier rubber and it would hose the Cup Car...with the a/c on. |
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17 Mar 2008, 23:32 (Ref:2155206) | #74 | |||
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Nothing like some factual information to help us all understand. |
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18 Mar 2008, 01:49 (Ref:2155269) | #75 | ||
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thats enough, all you blokes will drown in ya own dribble soon. I have never heard so much bull**** in all my life. I am glad I have a life outside this forum, unlike some on here...........................
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those things refered to on here as ARC's belong in the demo derby at the speedway |
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