Towing Trailers and the Tacho Law

[Scooby 96]

New risk of fines for towing trailer users


Van operators risk being stung by a £200 on-the-spot fine if they are caught using a low-loader trailer with a tow vehicle that has not been fitted with a tachograph, the Retail Motor Industry Federation has warned.
The regulation also covers heavy 4x4 cars as well as commercial vehicles that are towing trailers. It has been in force for many years, but has only been enforced since May when the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency introduced a new fixed penalty regime.
Operators could be caught out if they believe their tow vehicle is too light to require a tachograph. The law states that a tow vehicle can have a gross vehicle weight up to 3,500kgs without a tachograph being required. However, when towing a trailer these vehicles their gross combination weight will exceed 3,500kgs. Therefore, the tow vehicle has to be fitted and operated with a tachograph.
“Traffic enforcement officers are now issuing spot fines at the roadside, and a number of companies have already been fined,” said the RMIF’s Sue Robinson. “To avoid incurring the £200 charge, consider fitting a tachograph on any tow vehicle that is likely to be used in combination with a low-loader.”

I know this subject has been aired in the past but it looks now that ANY van or Pick-up and trailer with overall weight of 3500kg needs a Tacho. Am awaiting confirmation from VOSA if this applies to 'Private ' vehicles' or just Company vans and Pick-ups. Any ideas............?

[Tim Falce]

This as been law for ages, nothing new but it only affects those engaged in hire and reward operations. If you are towing your own vehicle you don't need a tachograph

[Rovcoup]

A friend of mine got caught a couple of months ago towing a trailer with a transit recovery truck by vosa now he has a tacho fitted, i did warn him ages ago he didnt get a fine but wasnt allowed to carry on with the trailer though.This wasnt private use by the way.

[265jaguar37]

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's but every year at the mot its declared as tachograph exempt as its a private hgv and is not used for hire or reward , ive always towed with it , and my argument is that my old fashioned paper license entitles me to tow with an hgv up to a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's , hope this helps somebody.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by 265jaguar37

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's

That means that you're breaking the law unless you've got a class2 licence,that only allows you to tow 750kgs your caravan is over 1000kgs max weight!

[Robert Morris]

Originally Posted by 265jaguar37

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's but every year at the mot its declared as tachograph exempt as its a private hgv and is not used for hire or reward , ive always towed with it , and my argument is that my old fashioned paper license entitles me to tow with an hgv up to a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's , hope this helps somebody.

Ken is your license like mine where you can drive a lorry upto 7500kilos plus tow up to 750 kilos with a maxium train lenght of 42 ft.
however if you tow with your motor home or horse box i belive the lenght is different.
The later type licence where the driving test was taken after 1998 ?you can only drive/ tow upto 3500 kilos and that does include motor homes.
The rest of our crew are having to take an extra test

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by 265jaguar37

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's but every year at the mot its declared as tachograph exempt as its a private hgv and is not used for hire or reward , ive always towed with it , and my argument is that my old fashioned paper license entitles me to tow with an hgv up to a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's , hope this helps somebody.

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

That means that you're breaking the law unless you've got a class2 licence,that only allows you to tow 750kgs your caravan is over 1000kgs max weight!

The answer is in "Old fashioned paper licence" which means he took his test well before 1997 when the 750kg trailer and 3500kg gross train weight rule came in.

[greasy stick]

This is the fact - you will only need to have a tachograph fitted if you are operating the car/van & trailer as part of your business, such as a racing team, or carrying race cars for customers.

However, about 4 years ago I was stopped driving my Shogun and aluminium covered twin axle trailer with F3 inside on the A50 coming home from Mallory. The policeman had got it totally wrong and tried to say it was a business as I had a team (even had logos on the side) and tried to pass it off as OK only because I was driving both the race car and road car, even looked at my race licence. He said if I had asked my mechanic to drive the car he could have given me a ticket. Although he agreed that if we were all going camping for the weekend and just happened to have the car in the back it would be private use! Of course he had got it all totally wrong, but it would have just taken ages to convince him.

If you are running a truck 7.5t or above as part of your business you will or need a tacho and Operators Licence. (although I'm not sure at the moment if this applies to a 3.5t van & trailer). Just to further muddy the waters...if you are running a race team as a business and carry fuel, gas bottles or any other sort of Dangerous Goods the driver will need some sort of ADR awareness training. (unless its in Limited Quantities, & fuel wouldn't be.). If you were carrying, say, 75 litres of fuel in cans the driver would need to have some ADR awareness training, its about a 3 hour course.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by falcemob

The answer is in "Old fashioned paper licence" which means he took his test well before 1997 when the 750kg trailer and 3500kg gross train weight rule came in.

Yes but even with his old paper licence towing a 1000+kg caravan on the back of his 7500kg truck is illegal UNLESS he's got a class 2 or above licence.NB: A class 2 (or whatever it's called now) will allow a max train weight of 12000kgs.

[Tim Falce]

There is no class 2 any more, it's just C1 and C1+E or CE or whatever.
It wont matter how heavy his trailer/caravan is providing he doesn't exceed the maximum plated weight of his tow vehicle.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by falcemob

It wont matter how heavy his trailer/caravan is providing he doesn't exceed the maximum plated weight of his tow vehicle.

Umm yes it does,the max on an older car (non hgv) licence is 7500kgs + 750kgs trailer so he can't tow more than 750kgs behind his 7500kg truck WITHOUT passing his hgv test.

http://www.licencecheck.co.uk/category_codes.php


Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailerup to 750kg. C1 18 3
Medium Sized vehicles with trailers
Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg - total weight not more than 12000kg (if you passed your category B test prior to 1.1.1997 you will be restricted to a total weight not more than 8250kg). C1+E 21 3

[Rovcoup]

Its all got to be under 8250kg with grandfather rights(before 97) thats including the trailer unless youve taken the test since 1997 then its 12000kg.

[Rovcoup]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ons/DG_4022547

before 1997

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ions/DG_180694

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

Umm yes it does,the max on an older car (non hgv) licence is 7500kgs + 750kgs trailer so he can't tow more than 750kgs behind his 7500kg truck WITHOUT passing his hgv test.

http://www.licencecheck.co.uk/category_codes.php


Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailerup to 750kg. C1 18 3
Medium Sized vehicles with trailers
Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg - total weight not more than 12000kg (if you passed your category B test prior to 1.1.1997 you will be restricted to a total weight not more than 8250kg). C1+E 21 3

Whether he is restricted to a gross train weight of 8250kg or not there is northing to say the weight of the trailer can't exceed 750kg providing the GTW is no more than 8250kg if he passed his test before 1.1.97.

[Robert Morris]

Well got to say this best thread we had in ages.
Is there not another law where the unladen weight of the towing vechile has to be a percentage greater than that being towed?

[Chris Y]

Yes, but only on every 3rd Sunday in a leap year.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

Yes, but only on every 3rd Sunday in a leap year.

Yes but that has to follow a full moon in Ramadan.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by Robert Morris

Is there not another law where the unladen weight of the towing vechile has to be a percentage greater than that being towed?

Nope,for private cars (including 4x4s) legally you can NOT tow more than the kerbweight OR manufacturers' limit (whichever is lower).

For commercials,(vans/pick ups included) you can't tow more than the design tow weight or train weight.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

Nope,for private cars (including 4x4s) legally you can NOT tow more than the kerbweight OR manufacturers' limit (whichever is lower).

Rubbish.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Whether he is restricted to a gross train weight of 8250kg or not there is northing to say the weight of the trailer can't exceed 750kg providing the GTW is no more than 8250kg if he passed his test before 1.1.97.

Yes but Ken tows with a 7.5tonne (max) truck therefore he cannot tow in excess of 750kgs. GTW = GROSS TRAIN WEIGHT That is the max weights of both truck and trailer combined or plated train/design weights of both.
IE: Gross weight of truck: 7500kgs.

Gross (Design)weight of caravan: 1300kgs

Equals: 8800kgs so it's 550kgs over the allowable train weight
It doesn't matter if when they're loaded the weight is less than 8250kg it's the design weights that the police will go by.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Rubbish.

Tell us what you think is correct?

What I said previously is based on rules from several years ago (when I went on the tow safe course),having looked into the newer rules it does appear that you can tow up to the design tow weight of the car as long as it doesn't exceed the train weight.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

Tell us what you think is correct?

What I said previously is based on rules from several years ago (when I went on the tow safe course),having looked into the newer rules it does appear that you can tow up to the design tow weight of the car as long as it doesn't exceed the train weight.

I think the relevant words are in Rovcoupe's 2nd link:-

"If you passed your category B (car) test before 1 January 1997 you would also have had the entitlement to drive vehicles between 3,500 and 7,500 kg (now known as C1 and C1E vehicles).

However you can only drive such a vehicle and tow a trailer where the total weight of both is no more than 8,250 kg."

so I drive a 3500 motorhome pulling a trailer/car combo with a max of 3500

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

Yes but Ken tows with a 7.5tonne (max) truck therefore he cannot tow in excess of 750kgs. GTW = GROSS TRAIN WEIGHT That is the max weights of both truck and trailer combined or plated train/design weights of both.
IE: Gross weight of truck: 7500kgs.

Gross (Design)weight of caravan: 1300kgs

Equals: 8800kgs so it's 550kgs over the allowable train weight
It doesn't matter if when they're loaded the weight is less than 8250kg it's the design weights that the police will go by.

It doesn't matter what the design (I'll call it by it's proper title, plated weight) of the trailer is as long as the gross train mass doesn't exceed 8250kg and you don't overload the trailer. So if for arguments sake the truck weighs say 3000kg, he then puts 2000kg of stuff in it, including driver passenger etc, that totals 5000kg. That means he has 3250kg to spare for a trailer and load. It doesn't matter what the trailer is plated for providing he doesn't exceed the gross train mass. This is of course for someone who has passed a test before 1.1.97, I wont argue about the legalities of anyone who has passed after as the law is quite confusing and I have not really looked into it.
Also don't forget that when it comes time to renew your car licence you will need to take the test as it would revert to the same as passing after 1.1.97.

Originally Posted by falcemob

Rubbish.

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

Tell us what you think is correct?

Commercial vehicles have a VOSA plated weight which can be a lot less than the design weight of said vehicle. Example is the truck I drive has a manufacturers weight of something like 38 tons and a VOSA plate restricting it to 32tons in the UK, I used to drive a truck (in the 70s) that had a design weight of 74 tons and a UK plated weight of 32 tons, good old Volvo F88.

Cars,
My Land Cruiser weighs just under 2 tons, I can tow a trailer grossing up to 2.8 tons. My Disco weighs a tad over 2 tons and I can tow a 3.5 ton trailer with overrun brakes or 4 ton trailer with full air or hydraulic brakes.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Many thanks for the clarification, Tim - that was also my understanding of the situation.

Folks may need to be aware that enforcement of these regs is tightening all the time as Police/VOSA Inspectors are becoming more vigilant. The carriage of fuel in jerry cans inside any vehicle towing race cars is receiving attention lately and ferry companies are now conducting checks inside racetrucks. I recently fitted a 90 litre auxilliary tank for race fuel to my truck, relocating the spare wheel to inside the box. Also, a 7.5 tonner with tacho exemption and a speedo fitted is ok in these islands but non-compliant in Europe.

Additionally, the temptation to signwrite a van/truck or enclosed race trailer should be avoided by private owners as VOSA will try to construe this as a commercial operation. Not for hire or reward stickers are recommended.

Its all pretty tiresome stuff, but its best to be well informed and compliant.

[Copperbottom]

I think you need to clarify the interpretation of "gross" ; the DVLA seem to take the meaning as maximum which how I take it.

Taken from the dvla website: Maximum authorised mass
The term maximum authorised mass (MAM), used in the context of driving licences, is the maximum weight of a vehicle or trailer including the maximum load that can be carried safely while used on the road. This is also known as gross vehicle weight (GVW) or permissible maximum weight. It will be listed in the owner’s manual and is normally shown on a plate or sticker fitted to the vehicle. The plate or sticker may also show a gross train weight (GTW).