Home Forum T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: OldRacingCars.com  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > The Chassis History Archive


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25 Nov 2003, 16:21 (Ref:1558305)   #1
Dan Rear
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
West Lancs
Posts: 2,005
Dan Rear should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ralt RT 2

Picking up on this subject from another thread (Brabhams) dereklola posts that he has some chassis histories. I believe there were 4 originally made, 3 for Tolemans in 79, then a further 1 for Schafer in 1980. They were super looking cars, and very quick, by all accounts the Tolemans in 1980 were carbon copies.

IIRC 2 of the 79 cars went to the US for CanAm, the other to ZA for Atlantic. Don't know what happened to the Schafer car though, nor the one described as an RT2 entered for Stanley in early 81 F2 at Silverstone. Any details dereklola/Jeremy/Chris.
Dan Rear is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Nov 2003, 20:16 (Ref:1558306)   #2
cirrus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location:
Addlestone, Surrey. UK
Posts: 81
cirrus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Despite having been involved in a hands-on, well... pencil-on way (I drew one incarnation of the inner tub skins) I can't remember how many RT2s were built. According to the Mike Lawrence book (which Ron Tauranac reckons is the definitive record of his work) there were five, although it implies that they all went to Toleman. I wouldn't be surprised if Bert Schafer bought one though - he was a prolific Ralt customer at the time (and a thoroughly nice guy as well).
cirrus is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Nov 2003, 21:26 (Ref:1558307)   #3
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thx guys - but I kick myself for writing too soon - I was going to reference a website that I've done based on what I've found out over the last couple of years. But when I checked it it needs some editing.

Be patient I'll get back to you in couple of days.

In summary though there appear to be six "real" RT2 - 3 for Toleman in 1979 (of which two are now in the US and the other scrapped in South Africa), one came straight to the US for CanAm in 1980 (mine), one went to Germany in 1981 and is still there and a sixth one has appeared with a later serial number. This last one appears to be the most "original" - still in Hart F2 form.

But serial number plates on Ralt seem to be largely missing. My two Ralts (I also have an RT4) had plates but literally you can flip them off with a coin or screwdriver. And if you want to just as easily glue them back on.

Quite possibly Ralt made extra tubs. Certainly Marc Bahner in California has made a lot of RT4 and RT5 replacement tubs for SCCA racing. And then there are the T850's - I've never seen one but I understand they are basically identical.

Then there were the Lant copies from South Africa based on the RT2 that went there.I've heard of one of these in Ireland and one still in South Africa.

And finally there are the Lola T850's which apparently Toleman commissioned.

The 1980 Toleman cars are of similar design but significantly in detail.

Be patient and I'll finsh up my website - then fire away at me!

Derek
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Nov 2003, 21:41 (Ref:1558308)   #4
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That should have read -
The 1980 Toleman cars are of similar design but significantly different in detail.

I have some detail pictures.
Derek (originally from Burnley)
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2003, 01:04 (Ref:1558309)   #5
Richard Young
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location:
Newtownards, N. Ireland
Posts: 127
Richard Young should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ref: Lants. The one in Irland currently belongs to a chap called Peter McKinley who has been hill climbing it with Warrion 2l power. I did one event in it (sweet car)when it belonged to Cyril Lynch, who brought it into Ireland from the UK. At the time he said he had contacted Lant people in SA and that there were '20 or so' chassis in various stages of build, but that everything had stopped. The implication was thay they could be bought.....
Sadly Cyril passed away last year, so no further details from this end.
Surely those Lola T850/Tolemans were simply Rory Byrne Toleman chassis 'productionised' by Lola. Did Ralt have any input, or am I reading this wrong at 1am ?
Richard Young is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2003, 04:29 (Ref:1558310)   #6
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
OK - please go to http://rt2ralt.homestead.com and click on the various links to get detail info. Several pages still need pictures added - will do tommorrow.

I've added a note about Bert Schafer possibly being the early (original?) owner of the Winkelhock/Interserie car. Any thoughts on this appreciated.

Also please fire away about anything else I've written.

To Richard Young - you're right about the T850 - my brain wasn't switched on. Also glad to have your comment about 20 or so Lants - that tallies with the info I got from Bernard Tilanus.

Over to you guys - you're the experts not me.

Derek
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2003, 10:32 (Ref:1558311)   #7
ghinzani
Race Official
Veteran
 
ghinzani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Dorset & Cornwall
Posts: 3,977
ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Interestingly Toleman used one of the TG280s for F1 Hart engine testing initially, and it was quick! I often wonder why they never used that as thier F1 car and just did pit-stops when it ran out of fuel. Actually thinking about it the engine may not have lasted until they got to the fuel stops! Surely that would have been better than humping the General Belgrano round various circuits in 81 and qualifying twice??

Anyway I digress - does that make it the second Ralt F1 car by proxy after the Theodore of 78? (I am ignoring Brabhams here of course..)??
ghinzani is offline  
__________________
Andretti, Mario: Auto racing legend owns the rights to an unspecified Spinal Tap song, which he purchased when former manager Ian Faith secretly sold the bandís catalog
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2003, 04:58 (Ref:1558312)   #8
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Some more F2 race result updates added.
http://rt2ralt.homestead.com
Any comments/updates?
Photos soon!
Derek
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2003, 10:47 (Ref:1558313)   #9
Dan Rear
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
West Lancs
Posts: 2,005
Dan Rear should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Derek

I'm sure Schafer was the owner of the RT2 that came out in 1980, for Rad Doygall IIRC. It appeared a few times that year, but not a full season, then again a few races with Winklehock in early 81, very nearly winning at Hockenheim, beaten at the last corner by Johannson in a Lola (Toleman) T850. So this car was definitely an 80 build, and new to Schafer I'm certain. Don't know about it afterwards, anyone got a chassis no. ??
Dan Rear is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2003, 11:14 (Ref:1558314)   #10
Jeremy Jackson
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location:
Coventry, UK
Posts: 652
Jeremy Jackson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
F1R lists Rad Dougall's car (entered by Cassani Racing Team) as an "RT4", but chassis "RT2-181". This was actually entered as an RT2 in 1981 for Winkelhock, by Schafer Racing.

As Chris always says, we can't take F1R's 1970s-80s stuff as Gospel, but may be a starting point point for input from someone...?
Jeremy Jackson is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2003, 15:59 (Ref:1558315)   #11
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ralt RT2

Aha - a light is coming on.

Attached is a pic of my two chassis plates. RT4-180 looks normal (came off my ealy RT4 Atlantic). RT2-172 has been altered and judging by the distortion was altered while on the tub.

Now my RT2 came with the RT4 "tea tray" rear suspension mounting - I always thought maybe it got altered during its life here in the US (there were many RT4s here). But now I see pictures of the Schafer/Winkelhock car with the same "tea tray" - pic attached to a following post.

So - that may well explain the confusion about the Schafer car, RT2-181, being entered as an RT4 in 1980 and an RT2 in 1981 and beyond. And just maybe its chassis plate got altered as well - like mine - maybe at the factory? I've asked the current owner in Germany and he says there is no chassis plate but that's quite normal for old Ralts.

The other difference between the RT2 and RT4 is the tub is 3"-4" longer in the fuel cell area - presumably to carry enough fuel for F2 races compared with the shorter Atlantic races. Looking at a pic of that area, also attached to a following post, I can persuade myself that RT2-181 is the longer version like my RT2.

So it's beginning to look like 3 RT2s were built in 1979, all for Toleman. RT2-167 was the first one. Anyone got any info on the other numbers?

Then two were built and/or sold in 1980. RT2-172 to Bill Blackledge in the US (shipped with CanAm body) and RT2-181 to Bertram Schafer in Germany for Dougal in 1980, Winkelhock in 1981, etc.

Quite possibly all five tubs were built in 1979 (mine has no Arch Motors no.). Then when the later two were built/sold in 1980 Ralt used the simpler RT4 rear suspension (in production for the many RT4s) rather than the complex multi-tube and billet aluminium RT2 design.

Make sense?
Any other views?
Any more info on the chassis nos?

Thx a ton - Derek
Attached Thumbnails
chassis plates.jpg  
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2003, 16:04 (Ref:1558316)   #12
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ralt RT2

Small pic of "tea tray" on Winkelhock car in 1981.
Attached Images
 
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2003, 16:06 (Ref:1558317)   #13
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ralt RT2

Small pic of fuel cell area on Winkelhock car in 1981.
Attached Images
 
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2003, 16:11 (Ref:1558318)   #14
dereklola
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
near Detroit
Posts: 281
dereklola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ralt RT2

Here's a pic of my "tea tray" so you know why I call it that!
Attached Thumbnails
rt2 172 fs.jpg  
dereklola is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2003, 08:44 (Ref:1558319)   #15
Dan Rear
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
West Lancs
Posts: 2,005
Dan Rear should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Derek

Interesting, though from memory alone, I'm certain the Schafer car was entered in early 80 as an 'RT2', not an RT4. The only RT4 in F2 at that time, was the Mallock UK Atlantic car, entered occasionally in 81, then the ex-Leslie Atlantic (new in 80)by david Dufffield in 82-83.

Btw, have you, or anyone else, any info on the Stanley RT2 of early 81. I know I keep banging on about this, but its beginning to annoy me now ! Where did this car come from ???
Dan Rear is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ralt RT21 ken herd The Chassis History Archive 26 29 May 2013 06:11
Ralt RT 30 research jason arnold Motorsport History 14 22 Aug 2007 04:18
Ralt RT 30 research jason arnold Club Level Single Seaters 5 14 Jul 2007 13:47
Ralt RT 22 - 886 Gonzo Motorsport History 11 10 Apr 2007 17:52


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.