Oldtimer GP

[HRSTR5]

Dear All,

Finally received confirmation that my entries are accepted for both cars, so that's the FJ in Lurani on the GP circuit over the weekend, and my brother and I sharing the TR5 on the combined GP/Nordschleife in the Nurburgring Trophy 100 that runs within the Marathon on Friday afternoon.

I've not been to OGP before so I have a couple of questions that i'm hoping 10/10thers may be able to answer? If there wasn't such a long list of organising parties I'd drop them a mail, but i've no idea who does what!

It looks as though it'll be another "Show" paddock a la Goodwood, so we'll be told to take our motorhomes and the two families and park away from the cars, does anyone know where? Or what facilities there might be, are we just going to be in an outlying field, or will there be proper facilities - toilet/shower block and electric hook-up for the bus being the most relevant for us?

Secondly - i run the car in HSCC HRS on Yoko AO48Rs, at OGP we will be running under the FIA HTP, Period G for the 1968 car; i've scrutinized every piece of relevant paper i can find, appendix K, the event regs, the blue book etc. and i cannot see anything preventing me from running the Yokos - but i'd love to be sure, can anyone help?

Who else is going over?

James

[DaveGT6]

Originally Posted by HRSTR5

Secondly - i run the car in HSCC HRS on Yoko AO48Rs, at OGP we will be running under the FIA HTP, Period G for the 1968 car; i've scrutinized every piece of relevant paper i can find, appendix K, the event regs, the blue book etc. and i cannot see anything preventing me from running the Yokos - but i'd love to be sure, can anyone help?



James

James,

According to the AVD regs the 100 Trophy runs to Appendix K regs doesn't it? Therefore you would need to use the tyres specified in AppK. I believe your TR5 would be period G1 so on that assumption you need to consider the following:

8.2.4 Period G (G1 and G2 - built 1.1.1966 to 31.12.1971) may use racing tyres from the Dunlop Vintage, «L» and «M» Section and Post Historic ranges, or Goodyear «Blue Streak» racing tyres, or Avon slicks hand cut to the Dunlop CR65 pattern. T, CT, GT, GTS and GTP cars may also use tyres in conformity with the rule set out in 8.4.1 below

[DaveGT6]

Originally Posted by DaveGT6

James,

According to the AVD regs the 100 Trophy runs to Appendix K regs doesn't it? Therefore you would need to use the tyres specified in AppK. I believe your TR5 would be period G1 so on that assumption you need to consider the following:

8.2.4 Period G (G1 and G2 - built 1.1.1966 to 31.12.1971) may use racing tyres from the Dunlop Vintage, «L» and «M» Section and Post Historic ranges, or Goodyear «Blue Streak» racing tyres, or Avon slicks hand cut to the Dunlop CR65 pattern. T, CT, GT, GTS and GTP cars may also use tyres in conformity with the rule set out in 8.4.1 below

Just spotted something else that may be relevant.......looks like you can run e marked road tyres provided aspect ratio is in period - not sure that would let you get away with Yokos?

8.3.8 For period G onwards, Touring, CT, GT and GTS cars may use suitable road tyres in conformity with the rule set out in 8.4. below, when competing in endurance races on circuits of more than 2 hours fixed duration (and the corresponding practice session).
8.4 Tyres for rallies
8.4.1 The tyres that may be used for rally stages on tarmac (and on rally stages on circuits or hill-climbs and on mixed events) are limited to tyres marked «E» or «DOT» (in accordance with the appropriate standard of the country in which the competition is taking place and excluding those marked «Not for highway use» or «For racing only») with an aspect ratio corresponding to the period in question. For stages run on gravel, so declared by the Clerk of the Course, no special marking is necessary for these tyres. Any alteration, modification or adaptation (which for the avoidance of doubt includes cutting of additional grooves) of tyres other than wear through normal use is forbidden.

[Moosehead]

Expect the srutineer to be very hot on AppK stuff. When we were there last year the one had a dicky fit at me cuz he was under the assumption that all Mustangs (certainly those in the 300km race) must be to AppK. He was not happy with my raised bonnet, alloy heads and Yoko tyres. The fact that 'our' race was not running to Appk regs was lost on him and it took a fair bit of persuasion to get my ticket.

[terence]

Your right Moose,they will be looking at tyre aspect ratio's,60 series was not available 'in period'.Originally this was at least an 80 aspect.Something that has ALWAYS been there but no one bothers to read for all Historic races.

[apriliadriver]

I don't know if this will help much, but I raced U2TC on the Nordschleife in 2008. Then, we were relegated to a paddock behind the pre-war pits outside the circuit with motorhomes etc and not much in the way of hook-ups. The main motorhome area was inside the GP Paddock behind the vendors street and had facilities.

If you have not raced the Nordschleife before - boy, have you got a treat in store ! Our practise was combined with the 4-Hour race - 140 cars on the track at 0730 in the pouring rain and a long wait carefully calculated to enable the car to mist up fully(and I've got a demister). When you find a wayward Corvette blocking the track round a blind corner near Adenau, then your sphincter puckers more than a bit. I had several of those !

The race was dry/sunny (typical Eifel mountains) and an absolute joy. Have a great time.
Nick

[revolucion]

The AVD Oldtimer GP 2010 homepage published the entry lists today.

http://www.avd.de/ogpracing/english/index.html

Says those are updated 8th of july, which is way beyond the last day of registration. I must say though; there must be something quite wrong here.
I've seen entry lists for the Marathon and Nürburgring Trophy here:

http://www.adac-classic-trophy.de/index.php?id=293&L=1

There's quite a lot more entries in that document. In the AVD pdf there's 15 cars in the Nürburgring Trophy and in the ADAC one there's 44. Sure, it could be updated a bit better than the AVD one, but why would AVD publish the entry lists if they are not up to date? Not the best of advertisement.

I mean:
4 Historic Grand Prix cars bis 1960?
12 Grand Prix Masters?
13 Pre War Rennen?

Sure, there's 49 Gentleman Drivers entries, as well as 37 World Sportscar Masters and 42 Revival Dt. Rennsportmeisterschaft cars. A bit better, but still? Anyone have links to more updated entry lists? I'm quite surprised by this.

[HRSTR5]

Thanks for the info guys, as far as tyres are concerned i'm not exactly certain that i'm a lot clearer on the subject... 80 profile simply isn't an option. Avon do a CR6ZZ in 185/70 which may be 'more' acceptable and wouldn't change the gearing too much, but i've never run them, so don't how much grip i'd be giving away over the Yokos - i had rather hoped to avoid buying a new set of boots to be honest, i've rather stretched the budget already this year! Looking at the entry list i can't see anyone worrying too much about us anyway, of 14 cars in our Class, 12 are 2.4ltr 911s and the other one is a 3lt Capri ... the only time we'll see that lot will be at scrutineering!

James

[terence]

If it should turn out wet,you'll not be disappointed by the Avon's.Come to that,I think they are just about perfect for the circuit.For the TR I think that perhaps 28lb all round would be fairly close for a start,I do know someone who runs them at 32 but personally think this rather high.

[jminsh]

We run the E Type on avons in the marathon because of the changable weather and to be honest there not much slower in the dry

[john ruston]

See there is a badly supported Pre War race (they used to call it Pre 40 about ten years ago)

[revolucion]

Originally Posted by jminsh

We run the E Type on avons in the marathon because of the changable weather and to be honest there not much slower in the dry

Interesting. Are Avons permitted as some kind of addition to the regular Appendix K, for the Marathon? I suppose you're in a Period F E-Type, as usual?

[terence]

If it still applies to this event,you may use them if the event is more than two hours duration. Be cautious though because ZZs are available in fifty series as well as 70s,the organisers are aware of this .

[HRSTR5]

Chaps,

Thanks very much much for this advice, most helpful. Decision is made, i will acquire a set of 185/70 Avon CR6ZZs - and then i'll queue up for scrutineering behind Keith Ahler's Morgan, which i understand will run the same tyres in the same race!

Hope to meet some of you at Iain's BBQ this weekend, or come and say hello - i'm car #37 Elva 200 in FJ and #38 TR5 in Roadsports.

James

[HRSTR5]

Blast, Blast, Blast ...

Nordschleife is off for the second year running ... my freshly rebuilt TR5 failed in qualifying first time out (although we had run a test at Mallory) on Friday at Silverstone Classic ... Engine builder has put his hand up and accepted responsibility after stripping and diagnosing the cause, so that is very good news for me - but unfortunately it means the car won't be ready again in time for Nurburgring ... third time lucky in 2011 ...

At least i hadn't splashed on a set of brand new Avons yet ...

Will still be there with the FJ, and the grumpy bloke with me will be my brother (sometime HFF competitor) who is now left without a drive at the meeting, just days after booking his ferry crossing etc... I'm feeling very guilty, although the engine failure wasn't down to me.

Plan to ship the TR5 to Oz for Philip Island and Targa Tasmania is also "on hold" ... This sport can be very cruel, on Monday morning, still very fed up over the whole issue, I got confirmation from VHRR of acceptance with the TR5 at Philip Island and 20 mins later I got confirmation from HR that my employer will allow me the extended holiday for the Oz trip ... considering the timing of those responses i think someone is taking the p...!

[jminsh]

Originally Posted by revolucion

Interesting. Are Avons permitted as some kind of addition to the regular Appendix K, for the Marathon? I suppose you're in a Period F E-Type, as usual?

Not me but Jon will be yes ! i'm Jason and only get to drive his E at the 6hrs of Spa

[delta]

Originally Posted by jminsh

Not me but Jon will be yes ! i'm Jason and only get to drive his E at the 6hrs of Spa

Have they put a new alternator on for you this year Jason

[revolucion]

Originally Posted by jminsh

Not me but Jon will be yes ! i'm Jason and only get to drive his E at the 6hrs of Spa

Ah, you said "we", so I supposed you were in it at the Marathon too.

After the entry lists were updated, I noticed Jon is going to compete "only" with Martin Stretton.

You're still in the Birdcage Maserati in the pre-61 race though? That'll be a fantastic race.

[jminsh]

Ha Ha the Royal "we"

I might be helping Andrew Haddon in his "E" in the Marathon as well as Our Chevron B8 in the WSM race

[terence]

Now starting to think I should start doing this event again rather than Spa.
At least the scrutineers look at the cars.!!