TONY C: Give it another tug son..

[racer69]

Originally posted by Conrod Kieron
Hmm, how many rounds of the V8's do we have now compared to pre AVESCO?
How many V8sc rounds are there at permenant circuits compared to pre AVESCO?

Then we have the Konica series running at permenant circuits.

I'd say overall, AVESCO has increased the amount of races at permenant circuits and with the Konicas, introduced a stepping stone for new younger drivers to enter the main game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the current crop of V8SC drivers are the youngest group in Aussie touring car history.

In 2004 we have 14 Championship rounds.

1996: 10 round ATCC, Sandown & Bathurst, AGP, Sunbelt Indy, Mobil NZ Series (16 meetings)

1986: 10 round ATCC, 6 round AEC, AGP, 5 round AMSCAR Series, plus i suppose you could include the Nissan-Mobil 500 Series. (so effectively 23 meetings, as one of the AMSCAR rounds doubled as ATCC round 1)

1987: 9 round ATCC, 5 round AMSCAR Series (included 1 ATCC round and 1 endurance race), 2 Australia endurance races, the Oran Park Silver Anniversary race (won by Steve Reed ) Sandown & Bathurst, Calder WTCC, plus you could probably include the 4 Nissan-Mobil 500 races held that year, and the AGP (effectively 20 meetings)

Your are right about the age factor, there was a time when the average age was around about 40.
--------

It is all well and good to say Konica's race seperatly as well, but their crowds rarely break 4 figures. Is it really a good thing that we have just one series that can attract more than 10,000 people to a race?

The other thing is that no longer can a promoter just put on a race and hope for entries, you have to pay the category management before anyone will attend (though to be fair that implemented by TEGA in 1994, which effectively killed the AMSCAR Series on the spot)

[Onlooker]

Talking about AMSCAR , how many of the main teams do you reckon would still support a similiar championship now? You could probally pencil in Mal Rose and Mork but I doubt that to many of the current teams would be to concerned about attending, or if they did it would be a full test session complete with shock changes mid race!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Growling Ferret]

Wakefield Park is trying to give a rebirth to something resembling AMSCAR with the Touring Car challenge, for everything NOT permitted under V8 Supercar rules.

There must be dozens of EB-EF-EL and VP-VR-VS Commodores not doing a lot in sheds these days...

[Onlooker]

That isn't really what I had in mind, a bunch of old old race cars that have no budget and running parts that havent seen a crack testing in ages all breaking down and sliding off the track,we may as well just run 2 litres

No I mean full house BA's and VY's sponsered by magor companies and crewed by proffesional staff.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally posted by Onlooker
No I mean full house BA's and VY's sponsered by magor companies and crewed by proffesional staff.

We already have a series like that, it's called the V8 Supercar Championship Series. You've not heeard of it???

[Onlooker]

It was in relation to an AMSCAR series

[pete55]

I'd go for that. Then we could have all endurance rounds for the V8 Supercar Championship.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I never understood the point of the AMSCAR series. What did it mean?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally posted by Onlooker
That isn't really what I had in mind, a bunch of old old race cars that have no budget and running parts that havent seen a crack testing in ages all breaking down and sliding off the track,we may as well just run 2 litres.

Well actually Super Tourers are welcome in the Wakefield Touring Car challenge, as are Group A cars of all shapes and sizes. I think it's a top idea nad vastly preferable to leaving them sit in sheds.

If you think an EL Falcon is an old, old car, I suggest you get along to the next Historic Race meeting held in your area. I think you'll be very surprised.

[aj_308]

dont see many historic endurance races though do we?

[Robert Ryan]

Onlooker, there are already too many catergories, we do not need another one.

[Mattracer]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
I never understood the point of the AMSCAR series. What did it mean?

Not too sure what "Amscar" stood for but in reality it was the the forerunner of the Konica Minolta series run on a "control" circuit ie, Amaroo. I later times, it was a race test session for GMS/Winfield Racing.

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by Onlooker
It was in relation to an AMSCAR series

Racing in another series would be a contravention of V8Supercar testing rules.

So in answer to your question, and since you don't count the Wakefield series, then the number is a big fat zero.

The teams you mention as being AMSCAR potential don't fit into your defintion of non-Wakefield spec cars do they?

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by Onlooker
That isn't really what I had in mind, a bunch of old old race cars that have no budget and running parts that havent seen a crack testing in ages all breaking down and sliding off the track,we may as well just run 2 litres

No I mean full house BA's and VY's sponsered by magor companies and crewed by proffesional staff.

There are only two (three) series where you can race BAs and VYs, The V8Supercar Championship series, and the two PROCAR cagtegories, GT-Performance and APCC. Oh and the Brutes too I guess.

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
I never understood the point of the AMSCAR series. What did it mean?

The original AMSCAR series was a descendant of the various single circuit touring car series running around the country, the last of its breed in that regard. For a long time it was a three litre series, leaving it a Capri/RX3 series and later RX7s, until Frank Gardner lobbied the BMW 635 into the series in 1981, to the complaints of the Capri and Mazda drivers, who were already being put under the torch by the Blurbird and Pulsar turbos. The Falcons and Commodores were let into the series in '83, hell Moffat and Fury were fighting out the '83 championship, it seemed pointless to keep the V8s out by now. The series ebbed and flowed until the final series in '93 where it was staffed by Gibson VPs, Gardner M3s, the Forbes VP for Crompton and the many varied Sydney privateers.

The concept was revived by the ARDC in 1997 during the time AVESCO decided to isolate V8 touring cars from ARDCs big cash cow, Bathurst.

[racer69]

The main attraction of the AMSCAR series in the 70s and early 80s was that it had a better TV deal than the ATCC. At a time when TV coverage of an ATCC round depended on a promoter doing a deal with a TV station for the one particular event, the AMSCAR series had live or same-day coverage of every race on ATN-7.

Even in the years 7 were covering both with equal emthusiasm, the series still presented great TV, good prizemoney and another chance for a race, which really is the point of everything isn't it?

I may be wrong, but wasn't the 3 litre series different to the AMSCAR series, at least in the late 70s? There was the Sun 7/Rothmans and later Better Brakes Touring Car Championship for the 3 litre and lower class cars, and the AMSCAR series for the big cars? That of course changed in i believe 1982, when the ARDC were pushing big cars not only for Amaroo but for the James Hardie as well.

If a good TV package and decent prizemoney was offered, i don't see why teams wouldn't compete if something like that could be organised (along with contractual obligations to AVECSO sorted out).

[Onlooker]

Originally posted by Robert Ryan
Onlooker, there are already too many catergories, we do not need another one.

With you 100% that there are 2 many classes , but I don't have a problem with another series for the cars.
Look I have no dream of it happening,just thinking aloud when someone included the AMSCAR championship in there tally of races in years gone by.

The reason that I didn't go for the older cars is that neither did the AMSCAR, they were current cars fielded by current teams,Nissen was a big supporter of it.
I would like top see a few more cars I guess,and some drivers with miles on the board,then open up the grid spots for Bathurst and let the cars line up around the corner again.
I know it wont happen but it would be nice to see 50 touring cars head up the hill again