Autosprout Magazine's Top 50 Drivers of 2004

Truckosaurus · 16 Dec 2004, 12:56 (Ref:1181025)

Just returned from my weekly visit to the magazine rack for a buckshee browse of the latest issue of Autosport. This week is the return of the annual Hit Parade of Driving Talent. I recall there was some discussion of this last year...

Only 3 Drivers from Sportscars/GT appear in the list. The highest is Sebastien Bourdais at #13, this is purely on his ChampCar victories and there is no mention of his other activities. Next up, in the low forties, is Richard Lyons, for his exploits in the JGTC. Finally we have Allan McNish @ 47.

In the seperate list for Sportscar and GT drivers, I'd also claim that the usual F1 bias is shown in that Mika Sala is rated highly (3rd) on account of his 10th final placing in FIA GT, above other drivers who have performed well in numerous single races over the year (eg. Ron Fellows in 4th place).

Fab · 16 Dec 2004, 12:59 (Ref:1181031)

And Tom Christensen ? Nowhere ?

andy_b · 16 Dec 2004, 13:00 (Ref:1181033)

big omission! Doh!

JAG · 16 Dec 2004, 18:28 (Ref:1181267)

Does anyone take these kinds of polls seriously?

No doubt every F1 driver is in the top 50, despite there being some very poor drivers on the current grid!

**FIRE** · 16 Dec 2004, 18:35 (Ref:1181271)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Does anyone take these kinds of polls seriously?

No (At least I don't take them serious)

kdr · 16 Dec 2004, 21:21 (Ref:1181388)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Humpage

Just returned from my weekly visit to the magazine rack for a buckshee browse of the latest issue of Autosport. This week is the return of the annual Hit Parade of Driving Talent. I recall there was some discussion of this last year...

Only 3 Drivers from Sportscars/GT appear in the list. The highest is Sebastien Bourdais at #13, this is purely on his ChampCar victories and there is no mention of his other activities. Next up, in the low forties, is Richard Lyons, for his exploits in the JGTC. Finally we have Allan McNish @ 47.

In the seperate list for Sportscar and GT drivers, I'd also claim that the usual F1 bias is shown in that Mika Sala is rated highly (3rd) on account of his 10th final placing in FIA GT, above other drivers who have performed well in numerous single races over the year (eg. Ron Fellows in 4th place).

thats some buskshee browse guy...did the shop assistant get you a chair?

**Adam43** · 16 Dec 2004, 22:16 (Ref:1181422)

Missing out Tom Kristensen was a mistake. He has been pretty decent in DTM too this year.

Mika Salo was rated well because he was the class of the Mazza field and did well at Spa IIRC. The guy is a pretty decent driver - he managed to get to a works F1 drive - so perhaps it isn't surprising that his talent may enable him to put in some good sportscar outings. Maybe he is a tad too high for me.

In all seriousness there are several reasons why Sportscar drivers won't figure so highly. The big races are one offs, that scuppers you for an entire season. You share your drives - which dilutes your efforts a little. The structure of the championships doesn't help either. The quality of drivers are lower in sportscar at the moment

I'm afraid those that are really trying to make a career want to be in, or are in F1, Champcar, IRL, F3000, F3, DTM, Nippon all before Sportscar. So unsurprisingly the better drivers will be in those series. Finally Sportscar racing is primarily about the cars - which is great

I think only three out of the fifty is harsh, but not surprising. Even if you split it evenly between Sportscar, F1, NASCAR, IRL, Champcar, F3, F3000, Touring cars, Rally, Other series then you'd only expect to see five or so in there! And some of those series should have more people in it when considering the best fifty drivers. So three isn't that unexpected.

So IMHO, if you try to take them seriously in a small way it becomes clear that they are not that daft!

Now what we need is a top 50 cars and then we can get some more Sportscars in there - at least with the variety.

Graham Goodwin · 16 Dec 2004, 23:39 (Ref:1181479)

In all fairness Kristensen is there at 23

But Coulthard ahead of McNish - What a joke.

Bruce Moxon · 17 Dec 2004, 00:08 (Ref:1181489)

Is anyone going to post the whole list, for those of us on the bottom of the world who have to wait ages to get the magazine?

Please?

Bruce (hanging on upside down) Moxon

BSchneiderFan · 17 Dec 2004, 00:28 (Ref:1181500)

And, in fairness, Kristensen was explictly excluded from the sportscar list because he only did two races.

**Aysedasi** · 17 Dec 2004, 08:40 (Ref:1181656)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

And, in fairness, Kristensen was explictly excluded from the sportscar list because he only did two races.

But one of those was a win in the most important of them all........

I found it amusing to see Montoya in 6th with Button 8th and with some wag proclaiming that Montoya is probably the best overtaker ever....... Excuse me?

eddsc · 17 Dec 2004, 09:33 (Ref:1181696)

It grieves me to say it but with one or two exceptions, it's just another lad's mag now, isn't it?
The Xmas Quiz is now at the intellectual level of a colouring book (and the quiz is done so badly you can identify some of the cars by the logos), we have a column on Jason Palto ****ing in a car and finding it funny - while the subject of this thread..? Well, it just doesn't work, does it? Top 50 drivers across so many disciplines? How can anyone tell?
Let's just put the F1 gang at the top, and have any old order for the rest. The individual lists for sportscar/GT racing are also a bad joke. What has Jamie Davies done to offend someone? Does anyone know?
More and more people tell me they don't buy it any more: perhaps I ought to mix with more 'lads' - or stop being such a cynical old Victor Meldrew. Or perhaps that magazine ought to return to its roots. A SUN reader I am not. Why don't they call it F1SUN?
Believe me, it's not worth knowing the order of the top 50: you choose. You must be able to do better than this.
MC
Edited for spelling (while in a bad mood)

**Adam43** · 17 Dec 2004, 10:06 (Ref:1181714)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

In all fairness Kristensen is there at 23

I hadn't received my copy yet, so only flicked (or should that be clicked) through on firstview.
I think that is fair. Considering his performance in his main activity through the year. And here is the point a great driver like Kristensen races in the DTM, not Sportscar through the year. This is why the better drivers are elsewhere and there are only 3 in the top 50.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But one of those was a win in the most important of them all........

Very true, although it was one win (albeit in the greatest race of them all). However the top 50 is about the whole year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I found it amusing to see Montoya in 6th with Button 8th and with some wag proclaiming that Montoya is probably the best overtaker ever....... Excuse me?

While this is surely for the F1 forum, he is pretty good at the overtaking lark. And surely we can put F1 down by saying that he gets rated as a good overtaker because he does quite a lot of it depsite F1 having no overtaking ever now. You missed a trick there my friend

Kicking-back · 17 Dec 2004, 10:31 (Ref:1181730)

These top fifty lists are all about generating debate - rather than being a hard and fast rating.

For that purpose - it works.

**Adam43** · 17 Dec 2004, 11:24 (Ref:1181762)

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddsc

It grieves me to say it but with one or two exceptions, it's just another lad's mag now, isn't it?

Try here for a good thread on the matter: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...&page=23&pp=15
John McIlroy is replying to most of the points too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddsc

The Xmas Quiz is now at the intellectual level of a colouring book

Just copy it into Paintshop and invert the colours for the others.

The recent issues (haven't really seen the Christmas one yet) have been pretty good IMHO - an improvement.

kdr · 17 Dec 2004, 11:28 (Ref:1181763)

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddsc

It grieves me to say it but with one or two exceptions, it's just another lad's mag now, isn't it?
The Xmas Quiz is now at the intellectual level of a colouring book (and the quiz is done so badly you can identify some of the cars by the logos)

to be fair if they'd simply had 10 completely black silhouetted f1 cars on the page even the cars own designers would have been stumped...

eddsc · 17 Dec 2004, 12:59 (Ref:1181823)

Which does tend to suggest the whole idea was pointless anyway.

**Adam43** · 17 Dec 2004, 13:07 (Ref:1181828)

Well, yes, but hey it is Christmas. If we banned all pointless articles then would there ever be anything on any internet site - including this one

Even stiking to one aspect of the sport is difficult. Consider sportscar, how do you rate all those different series against each other? And that is without getting into driving in different classes, driving in different cars and having different team mates.

So, whould we not bother?

Truckosaurus · 17 Dec 2004, 13:32 (Ref:1181857)

Wasn't there some sort of Worldwide Driver Points list a few year's ago, sponsored by Champion (spark plugs, not Dave Maraj's lot) which rated drivers across different series and single high profile races (Lm, Sebring, Daytona 24 etc.)

**Aysedasi** · 17 Dec 2004, 13:33 (Ref:1181859)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

While this is surely for the F1 forum, he is pretty good at the overtaking lark. And surely we can put F1 down by saying that he gets rated as a good overtaker because he does quite a lot of it depsite F1 having no overtaking ever now. You missed a trick there my friend

OK, I'll fly the white flag on that one......

kdr · 17 Dec 2004, 14:10 (Ref:1181887)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

OK, I'll fly the white flag on that one......

looks a little blue in this light ayse...

Fab · 17 Dec 2004, 14:11 (Ref:1181888)

for a frog

Erm...

I get lost

paul-collins · 17 Dec 2004, 14:56 (Ref:1181918)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdr

(white flag) looks a little blue in this light ayse...

Mark Martin fan?

**Adam43** · 17 Dec 2004, 15:09 (Ref:1181921)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Humpage

Wasn't there some sort of Worldwide Driver Points list a few year's ago, sponsored by Champion (spark plugs, not Dave Maraj's lot) which rated drivers across different series and single high profile races (Lm, Sebring, Daytona 24 etc.)

I remember that. I quite liked it - you could disagree with the points system and the placings! Great stuff.

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