Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 26 Aug 2004, 23:49 (Ref:1078633)   #1
Félix
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
MagnetON
Québec
Posts: 780
Félix should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridFélix should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
'92 Alfa Romeo Ferrari Group C car anyone?

http://www.thegaffer.com/motorsport/...o/auto/178.php

Does anybody know more about it? I found pics of it from a Japanease Ferrari magazine on some forum, but I'm not sure if I can post'em here.
Félix is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2004, 03:20 (Ref:1078753)   #2
Porsche GT1
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
united states
Posts: 63
Porsche GT1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
this one? http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=167329
Porsche GT1 is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2004, 13:34 (Ref:1079118)   #3
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 16,256
FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally posted by Porsche GT1
this one? http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=167329
Thanks, I knew only the photo of Felix posting.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 16:34 (Ref:1080647)   #4
GT1
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 152
GT1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
1992? Lets hope it would have been better than Alfa's Indy car efforts the previous three years...
GT1 is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 16:39 (Ref:1080649)   #5
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 16,256
FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!
Did Alfa race in Indycar?
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 17:55 (Ref:1080699)   #6
GT1
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 152
GT1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sort of.

Ferrari built an Indy car around 1986 or 87. It never raced, and many believe never intended to race, but the engine did serve as the rebadged Alfa Romeo from 1989 to 1991. In Rahal's book it mentions that Enzo was pulling the lid over everyone's eyes, but in theory we were supposed to have Rahal in a Ferrari around 87 or 88.

Rumor has little or no development was done to the engine in the three years it race, and despite having 1989 team champions Patrick Racing (who reportedly had a Chevy Ilmor shipped to Italy) and drivers like Roberto Gurrero, Al Unser Sr, and Danny Sullivan on the squad, it was a total diaster.

Sullivan had a couple of decent runs but those were few and far between. One was a sixth in Aussie ahead of a couple of Cosworths and a fourth on an oval (can't remember the name) but that was about it and it was rumored it never got within 100 horsepower of the Chevy Ilmor. With Ford coming back into Indy car in 1992 and the rumored (to be true) involvment of Honda, who by 1991 had a rough prototype engine on the dyno, Alfa withdrew from the series following 1991.

Chevy Ilmor were not prepared to supply Patrick with engines after the shipping fiasco and Miller left, as did Sullivan, at the end of the year.
GT1 is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 18:18 (Ref:1080728)   #7
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 16,256
FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!
Thx
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 20:04 (Ref:1080831)   #8
fazzaz
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United States
Appalachia, USA
Posts: 175
fazzaz has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
While there were similarities between the architecture of the Ferrari and Alfa Indy engines, they were NOT the same engine.
fazzaz is offline  
__________________
Support Kyle Petty's "Victory Junction" camp
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 21:33 (Ref:1080905)   #9
GT1
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 152
GT1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Rahal book pretty much says it was taken from the Ferrari Indy Car if I recall correctly. I will look it up tonight as I don't have the book with me right now. They even have a photo of Sullivan ploying around in his Alfa in the same chapter as the Ferrari Indy car story entitled "We were supposed to run a Ferrari in 1987".

It mentions that the car tested, but Bobby didn't drive it, it was believed Alberto did.

The point is that of course the engine was first put into a Ferrari, then a March and finally a Lola so it would require certain changes to suit each chassis, but from everythign I have heard and read, they were fairly close to one another.

If you have any specifics on the engine I would love to be corrected as no one has all the answers and if I'm wrong or gotten bad information, I'll be glad to be corrected. Thats the way I've always heard it and thats the way it was protrayed in the book.

Back to the Alfa Group C car, the V12 @ 65 degrees, would that be the same base that was used on the 333SP two years later?

Last edited by GT1; 29 Aug 2004 at 21:37.
GT1 is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 02:26 (Ref:1081083)   #10
GT1
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 152
GT1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Here is from "Bobby Rahal: The Graceful Champion"

"Ironically, four years late Ferrari's turbo V8 was resurrected and carried the Alfa Romeo nameplate. Like Ferrari, Alfa is owned by the giant Fiat group, and from 1989 through 1991 the rebadged Ferrari engine raced in CART and at Indianapolis. It was conspicously unsucessful, however, and ran at the tail of the field despite top drivers like Al Unser Sr and Danny Sulivan".

Insert with a photo of Alfa Romeo engine:

"The Ferrari Indy engine finally saw the light of day in 1989, when an iteration of the prototype 034 was race for the first time as an Alfa Romeo"

P138
GT1 is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 16:28 (Ref:1081619)   #11
fazzaz
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United States
Appalachia, USA
Posts: 175
fazzaz has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
GT1,

Well, I recall pretty specifically (from when a friend owned a couple of the Alfa Indy engines) that there are significant differences from the Ferrari engine, such as the location of accessory drives, some of the layout of the heads, and such. My "files" are disorganized to say the least and this goes back quite a few years, so I won't argue the point. I could well be wrong, or the caption quoted and my recollection may be saying the same thing in different ways.

As the Alfa Group C car which began the thread apparently dates from 1990 or so, I would not think this engine has any direct connection with the 333 SP engine. The 333 was designated the F130E, the "evolution" of the then yet-to-be-announced F130 engine of the F50. This engine was based on the 1991 641 F1, which used five valve heads. (The 333 SP was a four liter, as opposed to the 4.5 liter of the F50.) The 333 SP engine was developed in late 1993, and was announced in January, 1994.
fazzaz is offline  
__________________
Support Kyle Petty's "Victory Junction" camp
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 17:45 (Ref:1081698)   #12
mariantic
Racer
 
mariantic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Scotland
Scotland
Posts: 363
mariantic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmariantic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If the "Gaffer" picture in Felix's post was taken in 1990 (or 1992) what is that Alfa 156 doing in the background?
mariantic is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 23:44 (Ref:1081950)   #13
MulsanneMike
Veteran
 
MulsanneMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
United States
Posts: 1,831
MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!
Alfa apparently has brought the car out on ocassion so the image is a recent one (or more so than '92).
MulsanneMike is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DTM and Alfa Romeo? Thommy WTCC & European Touring Car Series 1 4 Apr 2005 09:03
Alfa Romeo 156 vs MG ZS TimD Road Car Forum 47 27 Jun 2003 09:28
Alfa Romeo GB touringlegend WTCC & European Touring Car Series 2 3 Feb 2003 11:08
alfa romeo knowlesy59 WTCC & European Touring Car Series 12 19 Jul 2001 20:46
Alfa romeo 308/ 8c 35/ 12c 36/ 12c 37/ 412 WANHER Motorsport History 14 13 Jul 2001 08:06


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 22:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.