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Old 10 Dec 2013, 16:35 (Ref:3342416)   #61
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Originally Posted by NickoGP View Post
It can only be something given to Abu Dhabi because they were put last on the calendar and didn't want to be.

Outside of that context it makes no sense whatsoever.
Unless Abu Dhabi deliberately wanted the season finale to happen at their venue and therefore have pushed for double points. Personally, I don't think this really helps F1, it smacks of a gimmick.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 16:42 (Ref:3342417)   #62
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Martin Whitmarsh fears that it may be difficult to impliment a budget cap. Surprise surprise and who will be the first team to be found with a bag of cash for something outside the cap?
I suspect it will be difficult to impliment the cost cap especially with teams who don't want it.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111808
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 16:52 (Ref:3342419)   #63
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Vettel says that the double points system for the final race is "Absurd". I agree with him, good choice of wording there.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 16:52 (Ref:3342420)   #64
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i've always thought a resource restriction would be easier to police than a budget restriction. teams have to register resources with a central body and can only make use of those for certain amounts of time.

perhaps introducing a control piece of software and control computer networks that can be inspected at any time might be worth looking at.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 17:15 (Ref:3342424)   #65
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Originally Posted by wolfhound View Post
Martin Whitmarsh fears that it may be difficult to impliment a budget cap. Surprise surprise and who will be the first team to be found with a bag of cash for something outside the cap?
I suspect it will be difficult to impliment the cost cap especially with teams who don't want it.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111808
Yep, this is going to be another one where the regulators think they are going to be smart enough to police this. It is going to be very interesting to see what actually falls within the regulated budget to be submitted..

In the past when cost cutting has been raised, teams have wanted drivers salaries excluded.

I can also see teams arguing that R&D for the following years car should not be counted in the current years team running budget

Couple of things we need to look out for..

A figure of £40M -£50M has been mentioned in the past as a possible budget, I can't see teams agreeing to this now, it would mean the big teams employing 500-600 people would probably have to reduce their staff by 50% to keep overall costs within the cap. So I think £70M to £80M is more likely in year 1.

Loopholes, I am sure that teams will see if there are legitimate accounting ways they can still spend more than the cap, but keep the accounts within budget, so will we see things like divisions of the team (e.g. composites, wind tunnel, design office) hived off into separate companies who bill the main F1 team at less than cost for goods and services?
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 17:27 (Ref:3342426)   #66
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A budget cap will eventually fail. Any budget cap will only be partially effective to do what its supposed to do. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented though. Even if it only works for a time maybe it's worth it.

To maximise effectiveness you would need to attach an independent team of inspectors and auditors to each team to review the books and pursue a paper trail for everything.

Also, with the internet age, speculation about breaches and loopholes, both founded and hysterical, would be relentless and politically exhausting. Particularly for Ferrari, who do far more in-house, than anyone else and who, the other teams view with envy.

In short, the FIA would need to roll up its sleeves and be ready to slog it out for an indefinite battle with a cost cap because policing the pockets is about as controversial thing as you can do with a team.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 17:43 (Ref:3342428)   #67
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 17:50 (Ref:3342430)   #68
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Originally Posted by steve_r View Post
Vettel says that the double points system for the final race is "Absurd". I agree with him, good choice of wording there.
Now that Vettel agrees that it's 'absurd', perhaps more people will like the idea?

But I agree, it is absurd. I will also agree that it was an absurd idea when we get to the Abu Dhabi GP.

I think it was equally absurd that Alain Prost lost the 1988 title, even though he had scored more points than his team mate. Dumb regulations are not a new thing.

Last edited by Marbot; 10 Dec 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 18:04 (Ref:3342432)   #69
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Double points for Crappy Dhabi?

Why don't they go the whole hog and just introduce success ballast? NO, people in charge, that's a joke.


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2013 was a snoozer because of Vettel`s dominance
I respectfully and completely disagree with this. There were some excellent races, including ones Vettel dominated. 1st position might be the most important, but there is racing up and down the field.

Plus, he and Red Bull did a better job than the others. Full stop.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 18:07 (Ref:3342433)   #70
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It doesn't matter how much you liked the actual racing in 2013, Vettel domination just equals borefest to some forum members.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3342439)   #71
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It figures it would be a terrible rule such as this that would bring me back...

The essence of F1 has been eroded by the death by a thousand cuts. DRS, manadtory tire stops, mandatory tire rationing, soulless new tracks and now double points in Abu Dahbi.

Feh.

47 years a fan for this????
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 18:52 (Ref:3342443)   #72
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Originally Posted by Marbot View Post
It doesn't matter how much you liked the actual racing in 2013, Vettel domination just equals borefest to some forum members.
Never a borefest....
Racing is racing and F1 has been for 60 years but for a generation who grew up on X-Box and video games, instant gratification, its easy to feel bored if you aren't being stimulated in some way.

Races from the 60's 70's and 80's may not have been titanic battles all the time but I was never bored with it. Today we have all sorts of manipulation to make it 'more interesting' yet it has lost its soul.

Public approval or popularity isn't always the best indicator of sporting value.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 18:52 (Ref:3342444)   #73
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Double points? It would have meant that this year Vettel had an even bigger lead over Alonso at the end of the day. Rather defeats the object.

Daft I call it!
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 19:02 (Ref:3342445)   #74
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Now that Vettel agrees that it's 'absurd', perhaps more people will like the idea?

But I agree, it is absurd. I will also agree that it was an absurd idea when we get to the Abu Dhabi GP.

I think it was equally absurd that Alain Prost lost the 1988 title, even though he had scored more points than his team mate. Dumb regulations are not a new thing.
That was the best 11 result rule. I'm glad they got rid of it but now it looks like dumb rules are coming back in order to spice up the racing.
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Old 10 Dec 2013, 19:03 (Ref:3342446)   #75
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